Rayline Civil War Figures Copy of Marx we look at the these interesting figures. They were part of a target game that Rayline put out. Rayline did the 60mm Gangster with pistol that were attributed to Ideal for many years. Kent Sprecher has on his site that they did a parachute with Batman and another one with ana army figure. They did some Star Trek weapons that are desireable in the collectors market. Looking over they a number of toy guns. As to its history it is a mystery for now.
Bill Nevins picked up some of the Rayline Civil War Figures and has some questions that people may be able to answer.
Rayline Civil War Figures Copy of Marx Bill Nevins Questions
Hi Paul, I picked these up in a Marx ACW set. The Rayline were mixed in with the regular Blue & Grey figures.
They are the Rayline reverse color Marx first series ACW troops. They came with a plastic gatling gun that shot plastic bullets at the figures.
Rick Eber has a picture of the gun on his page
I don’t know how many poses exist in these sets.
Does anyone have complete sets? Are there all 20 poses?
I have a couple of poses that have “tabs” underneath the bases, where they were attached to the packaging. If you look at the underneath of the base, you’ll see where a tab was removed. Real Marx figures have two eject rod markings. These are flat, when the tab is cut off.
Does anyone have info to add? What happened to the Rayline molds?
I thought that this would be interesting to discuss. Unless, of course, it gets sidetracked, as I see many of the postings have been hijacked lately.
No matter. I would really like to know more about these. They are excellent sculpts…………Bill
Rayline Civil War Figures Copy of Marx Update
Here is the gatling everyone has been talking about. It has four or five figures for each side
Here are the catalog pages of DK Plastics
Intersting.
Never heard.
So much x critisising Chinese coyping and I see every year that back then plagiarism happen so often and without impunity.
In British brands before go to HONG KONG they copied a lot.
I did not know Marx had been copied too and not first time before Hong Kongand chinese did.
Will like to know more about.
Best …
Aren’t they smaller than the Marx originals? I think I have seen some over the years in some large lots.
I found these Mexican copies in tan, brown and green.
http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/BillyHillRN/media/ACW/Mexicanclones1_zpsc6586c31.jpg.html?sort=9&o=40
http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/BillyHillRN/media/ACW/Mexicanclones2_zps60e9f07e.jpg.html?sort=9&o=41
http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/BillyHillRN/media/ACW/Mexicanclones3_zps6eea9382.jpg.html?sort=9&o=42
Per Eber’s site: “These pantographed figures are smaller and have less details than the Marx figures.” They sound similar to recent CTS Ft. Apache cavalry copies.
Per TSHQ: Ray Plastics (Rayline) made plastic bullet shooting Gatling guns, pistols, rifle and dart guns. For targets they made copies of MPC, Marx and Tim-mee figures.
They are not that much smaller. Maybe 54 mm instead of 56 or 56. To my eyes the detail is just fine. Look at the pix. Everything is pretty sharp as far as detail goes.
Yeah, they sound like the ones I had once in a loose figure lot. I may still have them somewhere , not really sure. Then again we may have sold them on E-Bay, it was a while ago when we had some.
I’ve seen the pictures of Eber’s stuff before.
I was looking to pictures and to my view,never see none in hand please.
just base in pictures abouve,.
I agree with Andy observation. The detail is more poor as close to cloned made in Mexico or may be a bit better ,not deep detail, also noticed the halve marks over mold more noticed.
again I’m following the photo image only please.
AMEX from Mexico copied 4 to 6 poses of these Marx poses and detail is about same or better, they add neck sun protectors as to looks like French x late intervention Mexico war .Admin may have some left I think!!?
Erwin, I was quoting Rick Eber’s site re: size & detail. Apparently, he owns the Gatling gun and figures and is describing them as he sees them.
Yep I red that Andy. Thanks ,but it still match versus photo …
Scale may be as Bill says..
Interesting in Gatling gun as I only know of brands from Europe(Britain,Timpo,Nardi,Dulcop,Atalntic) and BMC and Durham here that are infact Chinese made both.
So ,I will like see it next to figures in more detail…
Interesting enough Gatling Gun was barely used in civil war any how…
http://www.marxplaysets.com/Cool-Stuff/photos/Gatling-Gun/07781-02(L).JPG
I don’t think that came out. If you go to marxplaysets.com and click on “Cool Stuff” near the top, you will see it. BIG toy gun with little men as targets.
http://www.marxplaysets.com/
See if this works.. click on Cool Stuff near the top.
The gatling gun is pretty cool. I could have had fun with Eber figures. I guess maybe they were cut off the sprue that way? He has three colors showing; blue gray and black or very dark green-it’s hard to tell. I’ve never seen this before, but I like it. Another dangerous toy from the good old days. Also enjoyed Kent’s information of how the poses made their ways to different companies and it seemed to be normal business practice.
Here is old AMEX copies varied 4 poses version
http://www.stadsstuff.com/?p=3417
Other examples of Rayline copies on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Rayline-Plastic-Soldiers-Cowboys-From-Target-Sets-Marx-Play-Set-Era-/172531958963?hash=item282bb4c4b3:g:lr4AAOSwax5Yo2zr
I have some questions on the figures he is lists as Rayline. The steel blue I would listen as Eldon copies of Timmee. I may be wrong what are your thoughts.
I got kick out of his Marx Play Set Era. It remined me when Peter Fritz ran out the correct parts for a playset he would call it like piece era.
Gangster and cowboys are Ray Plastic (Rayline). The metallic blue GIs were misidentified by Geppert as Elden. They were actually made by DK Toys & Novelties of Brooklyn. The smaller copies of Tim-mee GIs were made by DEL (DELL) Plastics also of Brooklyn.
As far I know and read plus I have two metallic blue tim mee copies as (Eldon in my collection) I will pull and do photos.
I don’t know how many digs I will have to do.LOL!!
I think I red in Kent site too they are Eldon
but now Kent site list as non ELDON but DK TOYS & NOVELTIES!?
Kent any more info about this brand name!?
I’ve got a bunch of the Steel Blue GI’s, I’ve had them since I was a kid. Unfortunetly I don’t remember what was on the header bag when I got them. For a long time they were listed as Eldon, but I believe Kent found some additional information on them and said they were made by someone else. He’s goes into some details on his site I believe.
On Kent’s site they are under Eldon, but he says they were made by DK Toys.
Yes I post to Kent to explain who in heck is DK.
I made simple google and not clue, so it may looks like a jogger!?
let see….
In Gepert guide are listed as ELDON.
Yep, he states they were listed incorrectly as Eldon in Gepperts guide.
A jogger someone that runs for exercise?
It’s funny, but several sources tell me that these were plentiful years back. Yet wnone of them have any.
Paul, do you recall these as being common, because I don’t. I may have another 4 or 5 somewhere, but that’s it in a lifetime of collecting ACW figures. If these were available, I would have bought as many as I could find, so I don’t think that it’s true.
Just my recollection.
Seem to recall that Jim McGough had a bunch of these on eBay maybe a few years back selling under his own name or CTS. I had no interest so didn’t pay much attention at that point.
I have a few DK ringhands in metallic silver, gold & blue that I use to cut the ringhands off for conversions. Also a gold screwdriver. They’re about 62mm.
Hole in base for mounting peg and single letters stamped in the bottom base; one has an H, one has a K, and one has a C. Some on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/33-Figs-Vintage-DK-Toys-TIMMIE-Poses-54mm-US-Soldiers-in-Metallic-Blue-/252766375774?hash=item3ada0ccf5e:g:l5oAAOSwdGFYn38R
2nd Rayline on eBay. Did it separate because listing more than one site sends post to admin. to review. http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Soldiers-1-Mechanic-Jack-DK-Toys-Airport-Vintage-Ringhand-Plastic-PlaySet-/222397597911?hash=item33c7ee08d7:g:qMQAAOSw3xJXo-Ps
Oooops – meant DK NOT Rayline on #2. The ones I have look like MPC, by the way. Wonder if MPC made them for DK? Like Lido & T. Cohn “Superior”?
The one I have had not hole or marks.
So it may be that many did copied then too.
Included Eldon …
Least Eldon is very well known toy maker and x long.
Now who is DK????
DELL(Dell plastic Corp NY) did the 54 mm version copies of TIM MEE Gis ,already spoken here, yet DELL was a minor seller too . Not toy maker, so most be some else making x them too.
There are brief write-ups of DK on both of the eBay auctions I listed.
yeah I saw that ,but it says nothing about company just what toys the seller “think” were done and when may had been done.
So far I can find any-plenty about ELDON,DELL and even Rayline that is officially active and known x over 67 years.
here few LINK about RAYLINE.
by finding this link ,it show the logo and complete address ,then I google more …
https://bronzeageofcool.wordpress.com/category/rayline-toys/
more about RAYLINE-officially known as RAY-PLASTIC INC
http://www.buzzfile.com/business/Ray-Plastic-Inc-978-297-0088
from chamber of commerce.
https://www.chamberofcommerce.com/winchendon-ma/9929840-ray-plastic-inc
If I can get an official logo of the DK? toys I may able find more may be.
DK Toys and Novelties was a small BrooklynNY firm. They made ring hand figures Based upon MPC figure to be uses as Airport ground crew (PM #2 or 3 shows a picture of the set) and the GIs that are copies of GIs with a variety of vehicles. Geppert mistakenly called them Eldon but he was correcting that they can be found in Army Green and metallic blue. I got the rocket/cannon header card bagged set and the green figures were identical to some metallic blue ones I had in stock. I will send Stads some catalog pages. I think Payton may have bought them out.
I have put the photos up in the article.
ELDEN ? or Eldon!?
I don’t find any clue about this DK… of Brooklyng !?
Sorry .
I’m not buying “the made of by then” till better proven.
Packing by many in 60s till early 80s were just importer and sellers,who did and own mold is a mess .
Do any body found the source of mold been made and own by (DK!? ) and not ELDON.
Till other day (last year least ) they had been list as ELDON in Kent site .
I believe new update information need better clear based true data post or else …
or there some main data links missing I do not see ?
Asimple catalog showing painted figures do not tell me DK ? made the mold .it could had take mold from else or just simple figures from other to sale under their brand.
Spaecially seen ELDO and main toy company .
We got IDEAL selling in late 60s and 70s playsets(western fort/town playsets) with figures copied of BLUE BOX,LIDO,BRITAIN,LONE STAR and Crescent wile hey had their own made before. The playset are listed and mark as IDEAL and in catalogs too. Yet figures are not .
CATALOG and brands advertise or pack is not proof of origin of ,molds.
My thoughts. My opinions.
Best..
Very few of the US makers actually made their own figures. Most companies contracted with mold makers including at least in the early 1950s the Louis Marx company. The Ferriott Brothers mold makers of Ohio made figures for many US companies including; Louis Marx, Auburn ideal and Ohio Art . You didn’t really see copyrights on figures until the 1960s. It was not until 1963 that Louis Marx started adding copyrights to the bases of their newly made figures. Many of what we call copies were not illegal knockoffs but simply mold makers reusing some of their master sculpts to make figures for more than one company. Louis Marx, Processed Plastic & Ideal eventually made most of their later figures in house but many companies such as; Lido, MPC, Tim-Mee, Payton, Eldon, Ray Plastic, DK Toys & Novelties etc… never made their own molds. As costs rose even Louis Marx & Ideal contracted with Hong Kong companies to supply them with figures many of which ended up being copies of British makers. Catalogs show us who actually sold the figures, not what mold maker made them. Tim Geppert when he did not know who made a figure line simply made his best guess. I have seen several Eldon catalogs and the only GIs they ever sold were the six 45mm figures included with their LCVP + other vehicles + some 1/72 knock offs. The DK Toys & Novelty catalog pages clearly show they did sell the figures and to date no other packaged product by any other company has surfaced
Interesting…
I know all above, Thanks
We should not say made by ,but sold by in it case them. My point.
The catalog show painting ,not even color ,size else. Not clear any that looks to be Tim Mee poses ,that is all in my eyes.
Catalog with photo pictures are more clear ,these are just paint .
Other day I saw Guilbert French catalog with real photo displaying CESCENT figures in one of their forts. Indicating ,they used and sold others brand figures as well either because at moment inventory,contract or else reason.
The lack of information in this so small odd brand(DK!?) tell me they used others rather produce any. May be that is the intention in catalog with out real photos and just cartoon paint.
Any how I will keep searching for these odd brand.
I mean I had found more in others never mention brands and these seems to be only listed in catalogs or else.
May be one day a head card appear with name AABB and then we have to change all over again!!!…
I guess in the copy world is hard to guess who copied who and who did what …
so “sold by” should better used in my opinion.
my thoughts.
best…
Look at today’s appliance industry for example:
http://www.appliance411.com/purchase/make.shtml
I think you’ll find the same practices in automobiles, clothing, food and just about any commodity, so why is this so strange about toys??
So, what is the argument now, that unless some does the sculpt and actually does the mold making, and the production run that the figures aren’t made by them? That being the case I would bet from the list of manufacturers that unless they are doing metal figures that very few plastic companies did a beginning to end process in house.
In my opinion….
I think I say my point clear.
One is to says ,sold under!!!
Other..
Made by !!!
Back in the days ,not now .Most companies did not merge neither proof or merging exist.
Here we are talking about a mini-minion unknown toy sellers brand with very few toys “adjudicated” to it .The now famous DK-PLASTIC inc!??
Catalog above is painted.
Does it says color-blue metallic in figures?
Does figures are painted in metallic blue in that catalog!?-NOT they are in same Oliver green as trucks ,even do blue is used in other toys showed of “catalog”.
IDEAL when sold the metallic painted soldiers advertise it in metallic colors in catalog clear!
AND IDEAL catalog is a paint too ,not picture-
How do we know the metallic Blue Tim Mee clones around are same sold under that and not body else sold it!?
Ones showed in the advertise page could had been same TIM MEE sold under DK or other copies showed there too !!!
It looks to me one point simple reference is used today to spread -confirmed reference of maker in toy soldier hobby .It should be taken in consideration.
And…
Words should be choose before print to avoid confusion .
That is my point-Simple.
So base in fact that few main actual toy mold makers were makin toys x many are we brand making any seller of a products automatic because a head card-advertise!?.
Do we know what years these figures in blue metallic come out!?
Strange in toys is .Not info is fount by a “supposes”( toy maker) call DK plastic inc
When I can find more inf about 1950/60s Chinese ,Mexican and others very small manufactures.
To me it was just a re seller of others toys and that was all.
The so call DELL clones in 54 mm approx or smaller version are attributed to Dell as so far in many years found sold under it in bags /head card only branded to DELL only.
This appear to be an other day fix up made after decades posted under other just because a print out advertise catalog.
And TIM G guide is a complete ballony made up out of night dreams with not bases at all !!??
To many open windows to stamp a name there!!!
Funny we start with Rayline and went to ELDON now be “DK”!?
Gods forbid any one found another bag with other brand name soon!!
My thoughts…
Best..
In my opinion we are just getting ridiculous now. I’m staying out of this from this point forward. I find this pointless.
🙂
🙂
:-):-)
I have the Rayline Civil War set with gatling gun and 10 knock down target plastic figs.My set differs from the one above.Wish I knew how to attach pic here???
Can anyone tell me how to attach a pic on this site? Thank you…
Wayne
Send it to pestad@gmail.com
You have to send it directly to Paul and he’ll post the pic. Unless there’s something I don’t know, that’s how it works.