VISIT TO THE BRITISH TOY & HOBBY FAIR 2017
VISIT TO THE BRITISH TOY & HOBBY FAIR 2017 February is the time for the toy trade shows ir fair. At these fairs makers will show their wares for Christmas. some of these items will never appear. Also people can see trends. Occasionally surprises can pop up.
Peter Evans checked out the the Toy Fair in London and the gift show in Birmingham UK. His report is not good for toy soldiers.
VISIT TO THE BRITISH TOY & HOBBY FAIR 2017 Introduction
After a visit to Earls Court, London on the 26th of January it can be stated with no fear of contradiction that the traditional concept of the toy soldier that we knew from our child hood is now dead in the water.
This in itself is odd and quite perplexing as toy soldiers still appear as icons in advertising for the event – but are, to a certain degree not to be found.
VISIT TO THE BRITISH TOY & HOBBY FAIR 2017 Peter’s Report
I have to report that there was very little to be seen. The majority of children’s playthings now are indubitably based on whatever comic book, Blockbuster movie or TV series is popular, heavily marketed and licenced at present.
Collectors of SF and Comic figures are well catered for and there were several sets of 54mm DC and Marvel characters,plus “Walking Dead” and “Game of Thrones” sets, as well as a surfeit of larger scale models in this concept.
VISIT TO THE BRITISH TOY & HOBBY FAIR 2017 The Ray of Light
The one ray of light was that BACHMAN now owns the Toyway / Timpo tooling and is committed to getting the figure ranges back in full production.
VISIT TO THE BRITISH TOY & HOBBY FAIR 2017 Bachmans and Britains
Bachman also have the licence to distribute WBritains metal “Tourist” ranges as well as the reduced Plastic (Deetail) ranges.
The distinct impression I was given was that WBritains see the plastics as “Cinderella” range, something they produce but feel no commitment too. These ranges as seen, in the main as series aimed at children which will move them on eventually to the metal ranges.
There is a propensity to consider plastic figures as of no interest to ‘serious’ adult collectors.
However I am sure that we would recognise this as an ‘alternative fact’ and a market is definitely there if someone had the imagination and marketing skills that could revitalise this section of the toy industry.
Do not expect to see any new plastics ranges at any point from the WBritains company as it is now constituted. As far as they are concerned the money is in metal.
VISIT TO THE BRITISH TOY & HOBBY FAIR 2017 Other Companies
AIRFIX have dropped all their 54mm and 1/72nd ranges apart from WW2 and WW1 box sets.
I could not get any answer from the Rep if this was a temporary or permanent measure.
Apart from that the import companies had bags with those awful copies of Airfix and Matchbox figures which now turn up in the pound store in frightening quantities. Funrise, the Poundland Toy distribution company at one time marketed sets of 54mm Painted Wild West and 40mm Roman Gladiators but these too seem to have disappeared, although they are selling crudely painted copies of the 90mm Blue Box “Eppix” Knights and Romans.
And that is really about it. Sorry that its disappointing but that is the market at present.
VISIT TO THE BRITISH TOY & HOBBY FAIR 2017 Photos
Peter has sent us copies of the Bachman pages for Toyway line.
The last time I saw toy soldiers at a fair were in 2014 NYCTF they barely have a 2 foot space in few makers(BLUE BOX ) among it.
PLASTOY had the tubes with 45 mm Knights ,samurai, soldiers ,pirates ,romans and SAFARI brand line,. Most old.
PLUS former PP-TIM MEE and few LIDO with IMEX line being reissued
The JOGA plastic set maker had over 4 tables full of it and was more visited than any body else .
Their were several armor makers but control remote lines .One is the one selling at Dollar General last year the M26 and other armors.
That was all.
AIRFIX in 2014 as I report pass a new plug in line .I pick up catalog and saw it as well, most cover 1/46 scale ,included the original HO RAF sets , not idea why they invest do a new set in this odd scale and not 1.32.The launch a ne line of all easy plug in airplane in 1/46 from WW2 ,all fighters.
They also release -reissue from old 1:32 multy pose kit Some sets such GI’S ,AT cannon,cruiser tank ,still very easy mint new on sale around redone ,but very high priced I think
Toy soldiers are today third party cheap stores products ,not longer interest for TOY Fairs. Long are gone the days of toy soldiers in Toy world.
best…
The toy soldier world is a shrinking niche. I hope we all know that and accept the hobby for what it is. I’m 65; my kids, in their 30s, didn’t want toy soldiers growing up and still don’t “get” them. They have no nostalgic memories of big Marx playset boxes under the Christmas tree to recapture. Someone here quoted Rick Eber’s belief that the demand for expensive vintage sets and figures will last for maybe ten more years. I’ll be curious to see what will happen to the high priced dealers’ large hoards of shrinking value stuff.
I do not think those paying those prices are belong to our hobby but to a selective group that poses
Money enough and live in other world.
Most in this hobby are more humble and less willing to spend so much in so few.
There is still market x those w money as not many high mark sellers.There also some who like to buy x fun and generally eccentric with power who are willing to paid x .
There always will be x old vintage toys.
What would not be in future is new production market need .
My thoughts.
Best…
Games Workshop has been the main one to carry the flag for ‘toy soldiers’ for kids and adults with 28mm. The other is Shleich in its larger scale.
What GW has is a whole system with rule books, magazines, codexes and so on.
And it combined the tradition of toy soldiers with fantasy and SF. Your average kid is not going to be very excited by figures that sit on a shelf and old farts tell them not to touch.
For producers of 54mm to appeal to kids as well as adults they need better marketing with a very simple rules set and painting guide with ‘army lists’ like in Warhammer and Paul Wright’s Funny little Wars. And it should be tied in with fantasy and SF. So you have rules for including dinosaurs, dragons and monsters. That way it can tie in with other toys and interests. Time travel and hero figures could tie it together. ‘Become a hero in your own toy wargame’. ‘Create your own country or re-fight battles of the past and future’. Knightsand odern soldiers from WW2 on are good introductory stuff as children generally have some idea about what they are.
In my opinion and base in what I had see at fairs,shows and gamer convention-shows else.
Children barely go to gamer ,so The gamer-hobby that is not same as ours do not get influx from younger generation.
Most GAME-WAR figures players are late teens to adult mid age max and is because the push from computer games in late 90s in the so call computer “war games” and “empire games” with some made up technical historical reference that bring some interest. Literally base in old strategist table games.
I had been to many war game conventions and shows and barely see any children from 5 to 12( Lest all I had seen here…)
The era of toy soldiers went down long ago with the Viet NAM war in US (the main toy industry receptors) and main toy purchaser till late 80s when then central Europe had recovery from WW2 complete and new mild class generation had rise with enough income to buy toys.
By then action figures(3” Fully articulates with multy pieces in color and separated weapons plus accessories) invade the toy industries ,most base off any true historical .
From 80s till today they had been push in generation growing kids and their parents.
Film since late 70s are 90% non historical and most action are Comics,SFC or fantasy with few super Rambo style films complete erasing any historical background and strongly influencing children off any history.
Computer Games from late 80ds till now had been pretty much base in the same films above mentioned genre .
There had been a lane of early 2000 war-history related games more appropriate(by sale age permit) for over 13 years old kids that influence the WAR GAMERS fans to play with small 28-40 mm figures. But not the younger kids.
Most few so call historical or base off war film are more anti war or way too realistic=”Gross” to be seen by children younger age to be influence in younger views as not allowed or expose too.
Sample (Saving Private Ryan,Thing red line,Letters from Iwo Jima,Gladiator…)
By times they see these movies they had seen all cartoons comics and not that realistic pro action figures toy films.
In 80s and early 90s AIRFIX,IMEX and others were at Toy Fairs and nothing happen for more they push their line to the be bought by retailers .
Very simple action figures and game computer with color and graphic realist images are the best and attraction of kids in past 30 plus years or so;not our old toy toy soldiers line.
Children barely want grab a brush to paint any figure today as they can design in their own in the Ipod and phone all they want .
At school entry lever children are expose to play with computer and last of technology ,every day less with hand in toys and of course barely touching any related to military history,war conflicts or else.
Guns and weapons had become an issue at schools and to the point where many schools on Halloween or any dress party activity forbid the dress such(Camouflage,uniforms)-unless police officer.
In many schools in Memorial day and others cake ,food with figures or toy soldier décor are complete prohibed as far show guns in figures hand.
I had see it often in news and personally from two schools ..
So that add to the complete lack of interest in the historical reference base for children interest on military related toys .
No mater what idea or aggressive is,toy soldiers as per said long ,long ago gone.
For us expect some miracles is a very good luck and we should be grateful to get it.
There is not going back in main retail stream in toy soldier any more.
It is past .
My thoughts….
My opinion…
Best regards…
“54mm Game of Thrones” is that a continuation of McFarlane Toys building sets for 2017 or is it a different company? Worse, is it the same sets that McFarlane released last year?
It might be the same sets that were shown at New York Toy Fair last year, as there is a delay in some items coming to Europe. Mcfarlane seem to be doing O.K. with the line and for as long s the T.V. show is on and the DVDs are available I expect they will continue. I read on one of the Blogs that they are doing construction kits, which are sets with just building pieces to enable collectors to enlarge the sets they previously purchased to the level of the set pieces that McFarlane show at the Toy Fairs. I don’t know how accurate the info is though.
I mention it to Peter. Verylikely it is what was here, but sometimes there are items that are sold over in Europe and not here due to line being cancel here. We will have to wait and see.
Is the same and done in 2016.Produced in 2015 and early 2016.it is printed in cases.
Games of thrones figures sets and buildings are in clearance at TRU already.
Since November last year i report It here in one of my comment s
These as well walking death that I report in 2014 NYCTF.
Walking death line was trial at TARGET with very bad results.The prices toys and TV series are meant for young teens not children.
Halo toys and building from TV, game and film based are more x younger children.
Young Teens today barrely play w toys.That is why walking and game thrones do not have profits enough.
Best ….
Reading this report just confirms my fears that Western Europe and perhaps even the U.S. are falling out of love with Toy Soldiers at a fast rate as me and others have suggested, With kids interests changing to an interest mainly in computer games and little else the Toy Soldiers industry is going down all the time, And I would say that its only collectors in there 40s and up that will keep the industry going for a while at least.
However the good news is that there is still a healthy interest in Eastern Europe and Asia, And there is A steady stream of really nice figures coming out of these regions all the time at the moment. Also I still think that when 3D printing becomes easier and cheaper we may be able to print our own figures in whatever era we want, And in what numbers we want. So I know we are not there yet but its not all bad and we can still enjoy this Great hobby in the future.
I’m glad to hear the good news about Bachman bringing out the Timpo line. Not sure what to make of the Airfix news.
There is no doubt that these are not great days for toy soldiers. I think James’ observations on GW are astute – link figures to a game as an entryway into the hobby.
That said, toy soldiers still sell where they appear. I remain amazed that Dollar Trees keep having to restock those awful Imperial Timmee clones. There are people out in the byways of the US who still purchase toy soldiers for their kids. I think a real problem is the smaller number of retailers and their dependence on a few distributors/lines – like the Imperial clones that are everywhere – Dollar Tree, Walgreens, etc. We simply aren’t seeing a lot of the stuff being made in Asia in stores in the US.
I don’t think we can expect Marx style playsets any time soon. Buckets, or mini-playsets seem a viable option. ToysRUs still has plenty of its army buckets (I found a rogue Mythical warriors bucket there the other day.) and my Walmart still has a supply of the Lanard Corps Elite buckets. I wish BlueBox would return to the stores. I believe that BlueBox makes the Sunny Days buckets that can be found at Amazon. I think these show the possibilities of inexpensive bucket mini-playsets. Check out these camping and horse farm sets.
https://www.amazon.com/Sunny-Days-Entertainment-Adventure-Camping/dp/B01JCR268A/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1486918463&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=camping+playset+bucket
https://www.amazon.com/Sunny-Days-Entertainment-Assorted-Mini-Figure/dp/B01JCR2126/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_4?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1486919447&sr=1-4-fkmr1&keywords=sunny+days+playset+bucket
The people that make sets or made sets recently weren’t designed for kids. How many parents are going to spend over $200.00 for a toy soldier set? My guess would be not many. If parents are going to buy anything in the way of toy soldiers, they will buy those buckets or bags they find at Walgreens , Toys R Us and dollar stores because they are affordable. While I saw more kids this year at OTSN than I have ever seen before, the prices to buy something are much higher then a parent is going to spend in most cases on a toy. Even the boxed BMC sets that you can still find fairly easily are priced in excess of $40.00, while this isn’t a high price, most parents that bring their kids to a show like this aren’t looking to spend even that much. There are some exceptions where a father has passed his interest in toy soldiers on to his kids, but they are few and far between. I think if there were sets out there like the Comansi set pictured here, readily available at stores at a reasonable price, they would attract kids and they would sell fairly well. A set like the TSSD Nam set at it’s price would never sell unless some collector happened to pass by. No parent is going to buy that for their kid.
Comansi fort sets are still done and produced.
Main retailers do not buy then in Europe or here x sale at stores.
Best
Ed I agree with you .
Just that I add on the Comansi playset as sample
Base in my last quote, in 2013 given to me by COMANSI and GULLIVER forts at cost will bev $32.00 and 38.00 per fort in minimun orders wholesale.Not counting overal shiping and port fees.
Mean that if I will have to sale it .it will be way more high and not way any parent will spend that much.
Problem is their prices and production cost x both are high as made in thir own and not CHINA.
Even by today value BMC playset would be close to $80.00
at main retailers.
Well, you’re right that is too much, which goes back to why kids don’t go in for this stuff, and settle for the bags and buckets they can get at a resonable price. Mom and dad probably wouldn’t hesitate at 5 or 10 dollars , but once you go over that it’s another story. Which is one of a variety of reasons we’re not getting younger people in the hobby. The days are gone when you can get a box of Airfix Ho figures for 50 cents , a Rocco tank for 79 cents and a complete Marx boxed set fo $5.95.
Back then hourly salaries were $1.30 an hour for many people so item were cheaper. Still the problem is “war toys” got out favorite. Also the rise of the licensed action figures did figures in.
I went to an inflation calculator. 50 cents for a box of Airfix figures in 1960 comes out to $4.02 in 2016 – a fair price. The $5.95 for a Marx boxed playset in 1960 comes out to $47.87 – fair I think for what you got – and why the Marx sets were often cherished Christmas presents. Lido, TimMee, and MPC produced the everyday rack toy figures in the stores. This is why I think the realistic mass market playset option today lies in bucket sets, and I have been especially impressed by the Blue Box and Lanard Elite Corps buckets where even the lids can be turned into terrain. As for cheap rack toy bags of figures, I wish we had a greater variety of retail outlets. I’m sick of the stranglehold that Imperial and its crummy TimMee clones has on Walmart, Walgreens, and Dollar Tree in the US.
Interesting numbers, I bet they don’t inclue the cost of production though. I think that is what drives up the price so drastically. Maybe if the cost and time it takes becomes effective the 3D printer could be a factor. Maybe if that happens box sets will make a come back. Probably not, but we can dream.
Ed, absolutely true, I just punched the numbers into an inflation calculator – nothing more. I have no idea how the 1960 Marx West Virginia operation would compare in everything from labor, transportation, plastic and tin costs, etc. to some high end Chinese outfit today.
Granting all that – for fun I punched in $10, roughly the cost of a Lanard playset bucket at Walmart or a ToysRUs armyman bucket, and in 1960 these would have been priced at $1.23. These bucket playsets are a bargain for kids or any collectors who want them, and I wish more could make their way to stores – wherever they might be on the retail pecking order.
I guess most of us are in our 60s. In, say 1960, $115 was a good weekly pay check in Bridgeport, CT. Today, $1000 cuts it. So figure a $5.95 Marx Playset was 5% of a paycheck. 5% of today’s $1000 example would be around a $50 toy. $50 is still a lot of money to most of us, but would be pretty cheap for a quality playset today.
In 1969 I had a full-time night job while I went to college, 35 hours work week, I started at $2.01 an hour and my take home pay was $49.00. MY first pay check I had to put a down payment on a suede fringe jacket that cost $65.00, couldn’t afford to buy it outright. I must say though, that $49.00 went a long way, I lived with mom and dad then, so my expenses were non existant.
Something I find ironic is that Ron Barzso didn’t make enough money to continue producing his playsets that are now selling at premium secondary market prices.
My favorite was the ACW Camp that cost me around $90 retail from Barzso that I now occasionally see listed for around $300 – $350 MIB.
Ron decided to retire because of health and sales. The demand for playsets has been declining. Some of his playsets took time to sell out. Many of the people do not have the room to display the playsets. Others did not like the resin figures. Lastly the cost of some of the playsets were out of reach of some collectors. They were great and there is a demand in the after market.
I’ve not seen much hanging in the aisles of my local stores to tempt me to buy anything available – even that occasional scenery piece or “not-bad” vehicle or tank that might make it worth the cost of the set. Then again, as I often moan, in spite of living in the flight path of the Army Aviation Training Base at Ft Rucker, this is NOT a toy soldier – rich environment. At Bragg we had the Hobbit Hobby Shop right outside the gate. But I digress.
I DO know that since Ron stopped coming out with his annual playsets my wife does her best but Christmas isn’t as much fun.
So we can safely conclude that a quality playset is an adult’s toy and no longer for children. It seems less likely that a diminishing adult collector market will support the production of lavish new playsets. This supports the idea that short runs of quality figures may be the wisest trend in todays hobby. Personally, I am not interested in bags of dollar store junk figures, nor a set of 4 figures with oversized weapons and small hats for $40. I guess I will have to save my pennies up for quality figures and avoid impulse purchases of junk that will end up under my bed with no real resale value.
Nice to see that Bachman will be taking up the Timpo line. I wish they would attempt to try remaking some of the overmolded swoppet figures.
If Airfix is dropping their toy soldier sets, maybe CTS can start doing the recasts in decent soft plastic again, instead of the horrible Airfix K Resin. I never bothered to buy any of the K Resin sets. I had enough trouble keeping the weapon tips on sets like American WW2 when they were done in soft plastic.
Sad to say, but when the Star Wars Command figures proved to be a flop, I gave up all hope of toy soldiers ever being popular again. I remember even as far back as about 2000, talking to a coworker who was 8 years younger than me, having been born in 1973. We were talking about the toys we played with as kids, and he expressed disgust at “army men” and could not understand why anyone would want them, as unlike action figures, they were “stuck in one pose” and “tiny” and “you couldn’t change the weapons”. I told him about Timpo but even they seemed inferior to action figures to him. Todays kids probably have an even stronger bias against toy soldiers.
One factor that I think that is totally unrelated, but has a big influence on what kids like is movies. It seemed when I was a kid there were tons of war movies on TV or being made. War movies seemed to diminish during the Viet Nam period and the movies today with a few exceptions aren’t the large battle spectacles they used to make. The shows on TV are sitcoms, vampires, vikings , walking dead , Black Sails and Game of Thrones if you have cable and who doesn’t these days. Of course the age of the kids that would buy toy soldiers can’t watch Game of Thrones or Black Sails too much nudity. I know when I was a kid, the history they taught in schools covered things like the AWI or Civil War and the history books had color pictures of great battles and this sparked an interest in me, I have no idea what history they teach now if any. Disney sure sparked an interest in the Alamo for me, I wanted a set before John Wayne made his movie. I don’t know anymore there are so many factors to the decline.
I agree. The entertainment available to kids, and their exposure to history is a HUGE factor, Ed. Even as late as the mid 70s there was still a certain amount of historical entertainment that was available to kids. Then when Star Wars came out, it seems that all just vanished. I remember knowing about Little Big Horn and Gettysburg and Waterloo and The Battle of the Bulge from watching movies as far back as early primary school. I watched old 50s and 60s westerns and historical epics on TV every weekend and saw the 70s Eastwood and Wayne westerns and movies like The Man Who Would Be King and A Bridge Too Far at the theater.
My son is in 5th grade. I know for a fact that they learn only the bare minimum about any history that involves conflict. Even here in Texas, the Alamo only gets a very small mention. The history the kids do learn is mainly about people like George Washington Carver, Harriet Tubman and Rosa Parks, or Marie Curie, Amelia Earhart and Helen Keller. Each of those people have been covered in depth but no Generals or explorers have been covered. In the history section of his library, anything dealing with military history or the conquest of the West is presented in a dry and boring way and illustrated in unappealing black and white. I recall reading many beautifully illustrated, exciting books on history as a child. I’ve tried to cultivate an interest in history in my son on my own, but while he knows more history than most kids his age, he never really caught the history bug. He’s all about superheroes, fast cars, Minecraft and first person shooting games, like all his buddies.
Well, I know for a fact my two daughters both college graduates knew nothing about the Alamo, they thought it was a rental car place. When I was in grammar school, I remember going to the library and reading books on Custer, Buffalo Bill, Wild Bill, Kit Carson, Davey Crockett, Daniel Boone and the like. When I got to high school I took out books on WWII. These are people my kids have no idea who they are. I remember going to bars with my parents when I was young, too young to drink and a lot of the bars had that Custer picture and I’d spend 20 minutes staring at it and then going home and trying to recreate it with my figures. The American Legion where I also spent a lot of time had a painting of the flag raising on Iwo Jima and I stare at that picture and ask the veterans about the picture.
Let’s face it’s a much different world, now there are great debates about letting their son play football and boxing is out of the question. Kids get participation trophies, we only got trophies if we were winners. I live a block from a park and I rarely if ever see kids playing ball at the park. We played ball in the streets and any strip of grass we could find. We’d have killed to have a park a block away. We’d have small boxing tournaments in back yards, we’d play ball whatever was in season everyday, tackle football no equipment.
Even work was different I worked for a large company and we had softball, volleyball teams, basketball teams, a bowling league and we’d hang with fellow workers after work and sometimes on weekends. Sad to say I don’t even know the names of most of the people I work with now. I’m afraid to talk to anyone at work because they may not understand my sense of humor get offended and report me. The world has become a sadder place for me anyway.
Sorry, I don’t buy into the pessimism of other commenters here that the toy soldier market is dead, for a lot of reasons.
First, as James O’Connell and Daniel Murphy note, Games Workshop is the perfect example of why toy miniatures are not a dying industry. They posted record profits of $13 million this year on $118 million in revenue, and off of plastic figures, NOT video games (their video game licensing only accounted for $6 million in revenue).
Second, the market for board and miniature “hobby games” has grown astoundingly (double digits, like 25% year-over-year) over the last few years, and now tops $1.2 billion, with collectible and non-collectible miniatures games accounting for about $800 million of that total: http://icv2.com/articles/news/view/35150/hobby-games-market-nearly-1-2-billion
Third, there’s a vibrant community of young kids who are being introduced to toy soldiers through the cheap dollar store bags and buckets, and which could be an even bigger community if current manufacturers actually produced affordable figures that were aimed at kids instead of the collector market. Just look at the hundreds of young members of this Facebook group, based around a stop-motion movie made about those cheap “army men”-style toy soldiers: https://m.facebook.com/groups/Plasticapocalypseseries/?view=group
The problem is not that the toy soldier market is dying, but that toy soldier manufacturers are not producing or marketing their products correctly to grow the market or capture the young people needed to maintain it.
Toy soldier manufacturers need to do some combination of these 4 things to fix sales:
1. Produce cheaper figures that kids can buy at WalMart. No parent will spend $200 on an “army man” playset. Only older collectors think that’s reasonable. Optimal price point I think is about $5-$7 for a bag of 20-30 guys and a vehicle/accessory or two. About $0.10-$0.25 per figure.
2. Create more marketable toy soldiers. More fantasy and sci-fi lines, more book and movie series tie-ins, and more relatable periods (kids want to play with toys that reflect the current events they hear about every day; where are the modern Russians, Chinese, and US special forces figures at a kid-level price point?). Kickstarter is a great way to test the market for new lines without risking too much upfront investment.
3. Market and package their products much more appealingly. When was the last time you saw a toy soldier set that had this level of professionalism in its design and packaging?: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/3b/e2/83/3be283d8125c67f412f30ee46d763ac0.jpg Old, Marx-style lithographed playset boxes may appeal to older collectors, but aren’t going to cut it any more for attracting today’s kids.
4. Create a game and “fluff” (background, stories, and characters) around their toy soldiers. As James and Daniel pointed out above, and the sales data for hobby games proves, people love playing structured, well-designed games with their toys. The key here is the game must be as well-designed and packaged as the toys themselves (a poorly laid-out PDF of rules you made with Microsoft Word and uploaded to Wargames Vault ain’t gonna cut it). Websites like Fiverr, with cheap access to professional illustrators and designers, and free image tools like Pixlr mean even small companies have no excuse not to have a professionally designed and laid-out offering.
So that’s my rant. I don’t buy the “woe is me the market is dying” pessimism because the market is NOT dying, manufacturers have just not modernized enough in their thinking to grow it yet.
I will come back over to you later today as I get time to respond. On getting into Target, and Walmart it is hard. There is limited shelf space. Much of that goes to licensed items. As Erwin pointed out Blue box was going to do a pirate ship for Target. That got cancel because Target increase space for Star Wars.
Next Kickstarer has been tried and fail for figures. Perhaps a different approach it might work.
THey did Star Wars Star Command and that failed.
There is an underling anti war presence in the toy market.
With respect…
Sorry…
Above comment lack reality with retail and price production of today.Later I will explain-refute most point out one by one.
But so far this (Optimal price point I think is about $5-$7 for a bag of 20-30 guys and a vehicle/accessory or two. About $0.10-$0.25 per figure.) partial comment . Is not in reality with what today Chinese factories market production of some good quality ask for; not counting ports fees else to place a descent set in the shelves.
License and movie characters brands do have rent space in ahead year term and paid much high above impulse(cheap producer brands) so the competition is so strong that market will not give enough space to push it back to children using cheap lines.
Wal Mart space for space/troopers Lanar bucket is 18″ (4 buckets capacity ) and so far stock x 2 years with out replacing it.
Where are the high sales number reports for top line well done 1.32 scale figures from LOTR,Walking death and Games of thrones ,most clearance already barely short time after coming in…!??
I was at NYCTF and saw they coming, report then and saw how much push advertise they got…a lot!!
Those line come and died quick. Today market is about Action figures ,but actually and not today is since late 70s and early 80s or did we miss something here!!??
Gamers line are 25/40 mm ,a complete approach and total different Hobby .
as name says- HOBBY GAME-is a HOBBY=limited targeting an audience of limited numbers .Most war gamers players are not children bellow 12 years old age .
I had been at plenty Gamers shows, conventions…
Should we move and change to gamers scales to get what is not done!?
Where are the gamers lines at TRU,WAL MART,Target and other main retailers!?
They do not bother as limited sales versus action figures and other toys.
They won’t bother go back to try something had not been try, they will push for what moves fast since 80s.
More later…
My opinion…
My thoughts…
best regards
I will cetainly agree with points 1 & 3 100%. I’m not a market research guy, so I have no idea how to reach the kids and or get the items into the dwindling number of toy stores.I also think that the Toy Soldier shows are not geared to enticing the average Joe off the street to attend. If they are interested and show up, the prices alone of the goods offered are more likely than not to chase them off. The shows are for the serious collectors and not kids or the casual fan. The last OTSN there were more kids in attendance then I have ever seen, but the prices are much too high to convince a parent to lay out that amount of money for something that most kids except the most passionate will not touch after a couple weeks of play. If there were $5.00 bags of figures not $25.00, I’m sure it would be different.
This year for the first time in my memory I am not looking forward to going to the Indiana show, it’s a lot of work and a lot of expense and unless I get lucky and aanother dealer is looking for something I have, I’m going to end up losing money. Lafayette Indiana is not exactly the fun capital of the world,l so there is little other than the show in the way of entertainment.The Texas show is a different matter, I know I won’t make money there, but at least I can have fun. I mean where else can I go nad have drinks with John Wayne?
I don’t think that there is any doubt that there is an anti-war sentiment in the toy market, and in what – for the lack of a better term – I’ll call elite opinion. I’m old enough to remember the Vietnam War-Era reaction against “war” toys. That said, there has always been an element of hypocrisy in this. Wandering through high-end, “educational” toy stores I noticed that there was always room for knights, especially if given the smiling faces of Playmobile or Lego figures. And don’t get me going on Star Wars – a franchise four decades and 8 movies in about a war!
Getting into stores like Target is a real problem, and we can’t be surprised that Blue Box was bounced for the Star Wars cash cow. The shrinking number of retail outlets is a real problem.
There still is a demand for toy soldiers in un-elite America. Currently it is mostly being satisfied by the Imperial Timmee clones sold at Walmart, walgreens, Dollar Tree, etc. I’m really glad that JP mentioned the Youtube video world where these guys are seeing action – also some of Jeff Imel’s real TimMee reissues!
I think the GW model offers real possibilities. Miniature games and miniature board games are doing well these days. Many people still like the tactile pleasures of plastic figures! Simple rules or a game, or a kid-recognizable theme would help push traditional sized toy figures.
It’s not my thing, but wandering down a Meijer toy aisle yesterday I saw little 25mm Mutant Ninja Turtles being marketed with little vehicles, and sets of roughly 54mm DC characters based on a cartoon show (Not sure how articulated if at all).
The current sweet-spot for me may be the Lanard Corps Elite buckets of futuristic soldiers sold at Walmart for just under $10 – tied into whatever Corps Elite is, but serviceable for so much more. So I think there is room for mass-market soldiers – either the game or rules tie-in a la GW – or in bags and buckets. They may not be able to break in to PC and big-franchise-friendly outlets like Target, but maybe elsewhere in the retail chain. And to be repetitive, there I think is the problem now – fewer and fewer stores and distributors. Maybe the internet really will become the new main street, but I worry about losing those backs on racks in easy sight and reach.
To close this overlong post here again is a link to a classic article making the case for traditional toy soldiers:
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/08/13/magazine/floor-wars.html?pagewanted=all
Reminds me of when my kids were in middle school, the school had some type of day for the kids were they played games and won prizes. I wasn’t involved in buying the prizes, but I was elected tor un one of the games. The prizes they gave me to hand out were toy knives and plastic ray guns and things of that nature. One kid played my game , won and when I handed him the plastic ray gun, his mother stepped up and said he was not allowed to play with toy guns or anything involved with war and asked me if I could give him a less violent prize.
Wasn’t the late ’60s aversion to war & violence and the increasing popularity of electronic toys the basic simple explanation of what finished Marx Toys?
I’m sure that was a contributing factor, I have to think it was a number of things and that was one of the major reasons. I don’t know what percentage war toys had on their bottom line, they did make other toys.
My guess is that increasing competition – Hong Kong etc. was more of a factor. I doubt the anti-war toy mood helped, but Marx made much more than Battleground and Fort Apache sets. In terms of playsets alone, they had their dollhouses, farm sets, construction sets etc. I wonder if the Marx company had some of the same challenges as the US auto manufacturers in the 70’s.
They also made small Hot Wheels style cars that bombed out. I don’t think they were ever serious competition to Japanese electronic toys. Pretty sure the original Rock ’em Sock ’em Robots were Marx.
Lot of tin litho friction toys, too. Marx just lost touch with the market back then.
You are right Rock’em Sock’em was originally Marx.
In my opinion…
The anti war mood capitalize the demise of all toy soldier military era figures playset with Viet Nam era, it has been already proven many times and wrote in many toy soldiers books all over.
Marx first saw it since late 60s already and by early 70s he was already making move to sale off his company before was too late. Right after those who took over MARX molds and try make a sale off military playset went down very quick. Ideal and MPC keep afloat making others toys wile holding the losses in 70s TIM MEE barely made any army toys related other than reissuing same.
Most British ,Germans /French Spaniard and Italian military toy soldier lines brands died down too very fast OR transition to PLAY/BUILD toys like Lego/playmobil figures and articulated more fun-funny toys for children.
The color plastic multipart era start as well with it .
SAMPLE.
Jean Hoefler create line(PLAY -BIG)-1975
Comansi joint and cooperate to create AIRGAM.1976
Atlantic create the cars and models line with space .1974
DULCOP create MULTICHARPLY line in 1977
There several more and most other brands despair as toy soldiers makers by early 80s for good.
Only historical lines producer like AIRFIX,MATCHBOX,ESCI and partially BRITAIN keep the line and not for long at main retailers till pass to be a hobby x collectors and modelers.
MAIN manufactures were being bough yearly in contract by license brand names the create monopolize spaces year rent at retail main companies like is today.
The small left over space is what is left x impulse(toys with out any main brand license and replenished by any ,produced by minor manufactures).Often used as clearance or seasonal space in stores.
We can not try to think that the toy soldiers cheap products and ous prodiced are for same type customers.
our hobby and our producer made x us-aduld collectors willing to paid top mark prioces to fulfill our dreams in ous small hobby.
the cheat toy soldiers figures and some nice distributed are third hand imported toys bough to fill the smaller left over space not used by main profit brands that keep the business high of main retailers.
Mid class children parents do not go to Dollar General,Family dollar , Big lot , Ocean Job Lot or Dollar stores to get toys for Christmas,birthday or else for their kids. They go to main retailers most time .
So they will find what is there.
In 1993 BMC and left over reissued Marx playset were push in shelves in TRU,Kmart and some Walmart with the TIM MEE late playsets as well .(As far I recall I remember see then back then in very bottom small section almost hide in the inside isles of stores.
By early 2000 all and even the historical line 21 century and forces of valor were retired out shelves.
Reason -Not sale, not profit for the big main retailers.
Loses claimed in non refundable damage products affect 21 century specifically.(There is report on it about online)
BLUE BOX brought a 4 by 10 ‘ section the ELITE SF line action figures in 2012,by 2013 they brought the nice 10 poses new army soldiers buckets and use a 18″ space per store to stock 4 to 8 buckets only among action figures line.
In 2014 the announce the pirates and fantasy sets at NYCTF
But target cancel entire line and give to HASBRO.
PIRATES end in other minor retailers and at Amazon. The fantasy set was canceled by BLUE BOX because of what happen with pirates line.
HASBRO -Star Wars action figures will always sale BUT plain 1.32 scale sets of STAR WARS such “command” sets went out in 2014,by October 2015 the line was cancelled and stop and many sets never releases.Wile the action figures line continued as well new ones and keep going on. Why??
Not interested what so ever in the plain typical toy soldier line of our view. Not even pushed as those mention samples had worked.
Will not .
We have to understand that our hobby and that small line brought by retailers has nothing to do one with each other even if serve a purpose to us to increase our collection with cheap line and once in wile new items .
My thoughts.
My opinion…
best…
Does any body noticed a “classic toy memory” maker is bringing copies of Rock’em Sock’em and other classic toys to TRU since 2015 .
They went to clearance by December as well I saw then and took photos ,some stores still have then…
I have to wonder if the people who don’t let their kids have a plastic ray gun or squirt gun also deny their tykes Star Wars figures armed to the teeth with blasters, light sabers etc. Obviously a toy gun is different from an action figure, and I understand the concern over crime, terrorism etc., but I’m not sure denying kids relatively innocuous ray guns really keeps kids from combative play. I have noticed plenty of those educational toy store stocked with Playmobile and Lego figures who are surprisingly well-armed.
Out here in the Midwest, people still buy war toys. In the Meijer I was strolling through yesterday there was an aisle that had an assortment of plastic army guns as well as an interesting looking plastic “hunting” shotgun.
The Imperial Timmee clones keep leaving the shelves at my local Dollar Tree, as did the even more awful junk they had before. At Christmas, my local Ollies brought in a lot of those Lanard Corps Elite bucket, supposedly a Walmart exclusive, and priced a few cents more, and they all sold out. At the same time, my local TJ Maxx brought in a pile of buckets of the FOV clones, and other buckets of garishly colored and fairly crummy Matchbox clones, and they all sold out. Inexpensive made in China stuff will move in outlets like these. Maybe other stuff would as well.
Another problem is the buyers of these companies, they have no persepection of toy soldiers. The late Bill McMasters could tell you of the problems getting his playsets into stores notable Toys R Us. When he did the Custer set he had to take out the dead horses for them as they were afraid people would be upset on the dead horses! Germany Toys R Us would not take war toys only knights and western. To succeed today you have to get into Walmart or Toy R Us. As I said there is limited shelf space. This weekend will be toy fair people will be trying to get in that space most will fail.
I gave up on Toy Fair because of a number of reason mostly notable I can make more money from old stuff than new.
Is true many do not have a clue and does who have are force to follow guideline(they follow)
In fact ,I did as I work with them .
First look at the sales per quarter of similar last year item or related ,if less 30% move in quarters they tell you buy something complete new that match season.
So if summer buy summer related summer to fill the impulse spaces at main retailers,if spring same ,only winter you get chance to those type figures sets if you find a cheap producer.
Often buyers are not send abroad but to west and east main parts huge warehouses were thousand of imported bring massive overstock x pennies to be sold in huge bulk.
Vendors and buyers are under pressure in time to decide and they use it to choose.
70-80% of these buyers and vendors ever day are younger entry levels with non experience at all in toy soldier related arena and modern generation rise and educated in the action figure culture. Never played with toy soldiers or barely exposed.
In Germany as well Austria and few others as admin mention is true,barely non military army guys figures but knights or fantasy ,even Indians are dying down too now in demand I heard now
Since 2006 Wal mart was literally expelled from Germany after several legal issues only few years after opening the first store .So only main American big toy seller in Germany is TRU .
I thing there only few Target and of course the German retailers that bring their own complete imported toys not from same distribution as here.
Yet by example in Germany TRUS had carry the SIMBA German toy brand and they knights ,castles plus even western sets since late 80s with out any problem,but once again Knights,westerns and pirates only .SIMBA had produced 7 different knight playset castles ,two western (using copies of ELASTOLIN figures) I post some figures here before and PIRATE rare early set. By now I do not know if they had release any new ,last they did was in 2012.
Yet it does not indicate had been a good sales at all too in EUROPE ,but it had been pushed out at main retail with sets we never got here in exact same BRAND main retailer.
Best…
Andy .
Problems is children perception.
Lego ,playmobil are fully articulated and fully colored multispecies toys that are made with solely first purpose to develop children brain in construction skills first then dynamism too.
Our solid toy soldiers are not for that; are just as paws to be move around and drop in their view and pretty much are unless you use a lot of imagination like us.
Action figures does exact same as Lego and playmobil ,just with exact copy detail from movies so children get exact replica charter after seen movies, again using colors and movement parts.
In the other part is not that much in the violence detail of toy ,but in the ANTI-WAR-HISTORY movement .All action games and computer games age 10 to 16 are way more bloody and gross that all red paint I can put in my toy soldiers, still they sale because they are NON historical at all.
There is a complete against history enforced disdain at entry level education since late 70s ,but there non for the morbid horrible zombie movies and games as well super violent more graphic (so call action movies) of today .
They talk more about Beatles and pop culture in books than WW ONE and revolution war in early school books.
My thoughts…
Erwin,
You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned imagination! You may have noticed the similarities between the computer generated graphics used in current films and video games; Every visual aspect of the story or game is pre-created for the viewer, no imagination or thoughtful creativity required. Just sit there like a robot and push buttons to continue. For children I think imagination must be encouraged at an early age and sticking them in front of an electronic box does not do this.
I like mention too,
If the HOBBY brick stores and modelers stores had been closing in past 15-20 years at very faster rate and almost disappearing to become less even as online-internet .
I do not see how come there optimism in see toy soldiers coming to retailers in main stream either. Those special dedicated stores that focus most in military figures ,kits and in past carry most Airfix,matchbox,accurate ,even later carry IMEX,HAT,ITALERI and AIP are closing .I do not see any future at all other than see then online and more than ever EBAY-STORES
Even large retailers cometition are less with monopolizing of few and less diversity.
In last 20 years how many big retailers had surge?-NONE
How many had close down ?-Many
How many had reduced and close a lot stores(Most)
How many large retailers use online selling every day more-most
Amazon and eBay along are the strongest retailers competition in the market online.
The few supermarket or else bring few cheap lines is just a common practice used x decades nothing new .Macfrugal-now Big Lot had always bring some cheap line, same in Dollar General,Familiy dollar and others .
ALDI from Germany bring some toys ,nothing new…
Another parts is ,not see longer some products in shelves do not necessary means -“sold out”!!!.
Do you do inventory every day at store?
Do you ask stores manager about it!?
Do you check every store stock and proved it was sold out!?
Many retailers recall and pull back stock to be transfer or resold at wholesale .
Sample.Most Target command sets Star Wars sets end at Big lot like new stock. Target resold then to Big lot rather mark down and spend three month or more selling then x a quarter price down.
TRU do same practice .
When KB toys close down most their stock end in minor retailers .
When DRAGON CAN do pocket armies did not sold any more they end at vendor machines and Big lot in 2013-2014.I saw then all the way from NY-NJ,PA area stores around.
Many times we think item sale fast and rush.
Supermarket are seasonal and carry toys in more quantities by holiday season. After they pack and send elsewhere.
My thoughts.
best….
Hmmmm, and to think that the title of this was:
VISIT TO THE BRITISH TOY & HOBBY FAIR 2017
I wonder what the subscribership to Playset Magazine looks like these days: up, down, status quo? I used to get it mainly for the “For Sale” ads. I’d call the day I got it to discover that many of the items I wanted were “Sorry – already sold….” Did not renew after the first few years.
Please can you tell me as i see US soldiers from timpo or britains most pics i see
with a flag is yellow maybe with no numbers or the 7th
but i see a red flag with the 7th on it as i only see yellow flags
is a red flag a rare one please can you tell me about this flag
regards
barry
Barry…
You may find some answers here ..
https://collectablefigures.wordpress.com/2013/05/31/timpo-swoppets-colours-conversions-and-copies/
The red flags are more common from Germany and Australia on eBay as far I know.
I’m not a TIMPO swoppet fan but seen from there.
Best
Another simple guide for some sets here.
I think the red Guidon was made by late 70s last series and not x long …
but I could be wrong of course…
http://www.britains-toy-soldiers.com/archive/timpo_plastic.htm