Over on several of the figure forums there is a big debate about the new Expeditionary Force WWII Figures. Several of the collectors are unhappy with the size and it seems from an email Gary Kuepfert got from Scott of Expeditionary force he is unhappy with the size of the figures as well.
I have not seen the figures up close yet so I have no thoughts. What are your thoughts?
Sadly, I think I’m going to have to pass on these; I was never much in to 60mm anyway; it took me awhile to adjust to the “new” 54mm scale. With the price of them added to the scale… it just doesn’t add up for me. I’ve held off buying his ACW (as much as I love ACW) because my fingers still feel singed over his first offering and the newer guys fitting in with Marx’s Centennials (as I understand it) doesn’t give me the urge to go out and drop a couple hundred bucks there, either. I’ve been accumulating EF Persians to face off against the Conte Persians I wasted my money on so many years ago in hopes of getting HIS Persians, I guess I can spend my money on that – or wait for their next series (if there is one) of Napoleonics or whatever and hope they get the scale right or at least usable for me.
My personal view base in what I had red in other forum about what Scott answer to Gary.
So far I see the 60 mm or aprox 1:30 as future here.Not 54 mm.
Austin went for that, most EF are in that range. Russian limited two companies are making them in that range too in all last sets least. Forces of valor 1:32 ww2 and other set were actually 60 mm .Paragon are 1:30 scale even thought they are listed as 1:32 scale. CTS last German set are pretty much same, not smaller or 54 mm aprox as first set. So far Expeditionary forces is the only actual producer doing figures at a very fast rate, more than any I will think included in the past 20 years too.AIP very quite for long and others do a set every 6 month or more.
In the late 60 and 70 Airfix and Britain with few other standardized the 54 mm=1:32 rule ,still some of their set were smaller close to 1.35.Barzo early resin figures were 1:32 wile later come more taller(knights/robin) are 60 mm .So at the end no a single company match 100% their production unfortunately.
In my personal opinion sizes match uniformity is not a big issue as you can always play with scene space and distance factor. If using old way battle formation with figures next to other, just use all same scale together ,for other smaller scale use far back to create distance effect. I can put at Marx 60 mm next to an aurburn 70 mm US infantry as far you can put a 5.5 person next to 6.2 person. Where scale figures don’t blend is when body volume proportion go way too bulky versus other, or way to tall like a (Oliver Japanese) next to an Airfix Japanese as we know giant Japanese people were few!!.Also if not too hard , you can take off from bases and place in flat base. That in figures such as AUSTIN,PARAGON and other will bring down few mm for sure.
Any how that is a personal decision/choice as mine said. But till another come out and start making 54 mm down sized we will have to play the game same way did in past when Marx, Ideal ,Tim mee and many others did figures in so many scales and we all loved.
I think for those using European reissues or vintage such as Cherilea,Starlux,Olilver ,others the new EF are a good match and if blend with other vintage and even in cases such as timpo German swap that are more (60 mm) they will be good too.
first to say is that it is always good to see new figures, it costs a lot of money to produce them, so that is good. But this time many german weapons are to big for the figures and for the MP44 and the Panzerschreck they wear the wrong uniform and the Schiffchen (german hat) was never worn in battle. Can’t say much about the US soldiers, since I’m more in the Germans (naturally) but they look better to me. Have fun, never stop playing PB
Peter B
Hello Peter. I agree with you it is a big expense to make plastic figures especially compared to metal figures. Still companies have to realize that accuracy is in important to their buying public along with size of the figure. It is a hard road to go.
Peter I agree in some but other in my opinion I do not with all your respect please.
That a ww2 German holding the MP44 or Panzerscherck have wrong uniform is very irrelevant in my opinion, because those weapon even thought were given first to special forces by early 1944 ,but after June 1944 any soldier would, may and can well pick up it from a wounded, death or else and it was not such thing as what weapon goes with what uniform , specially by 1944 in the German uniformity was but nothing as many nit got mix and lack of uniform supply was complete .You can see plenty of WW 2 documentary and photos and clearly see the disparity of uniforms in field by them.
About the Schiffchen ,there a plenty of documentary seen then wearing it at field and front ,even in front line trenches. It was issue as a non battle NCO head wear original but many used bellow helmet to warm it more and the flap wing were lowered for that purpose with helmet on top; still many used with out helmet. But one thing is very clear and is size in weapon-included way too long ballonet; yes too big and all infantry uniform neck are way to close tide, so not correct. Those two last I agree with you 100%.
American helmets look odd lined and shape to me, same in size of weapons in some poses .
Last I like to add that for some reason (a one type=forward advance leg pose was used in almost all poses, specially in Germans. They look like start running or advancing at same time using same left leg!!
Erwin
Your points are very valid. As the war was coming to a close I am they were cobbling uniforms together. The different hat styles give you a diversity need in your displays.
Some collectors seem put off by the size of the EF WW2 but most of the guys I know personally who collect are delighted with them. I think they are great and I’m certainly supporting the product. Frankly I found the civil war ones just a little too small but great sculpts. However the ancients and WW2 are completely in line with the new trend towards a larger, 58-60mm figure. Well done Scott. Keep that sculptor of yours busy: can’t wait for the WW2 Pacific figures
John W
Welcome, I agree for me size is not important. I am more interested in the pose. I am sure that Expeditionary force will be keeping his designer busy. Hopefully they will correct the weapon size.
I am partly annoyed and bemused when people start saying ‘New 54mm’. it’s like saying a pool has shallow depths or someone got the bigger half.
It’s 60mm pure and simple.
I think the reason why this is happening is that many figure designers now come from metal figures where the larger size is the norm.
I know you can have a five foot five person and a six foot six person standing together but scale is constant and a rifle will look the same in both their hands.
I have stopped buying a lot of ranges, I find the TSSD and Conte figures sometimes look graceless and lumpy and bodies, arms and heads often seem ill matched.
My comment on the German WW2 is the standard reply ‘When the bullets start flying regulation go out the window’ By 1943/44 the German army were suffering from shortages and were cobbling together equipment and uniforms, so it could be acceptable – not that I’ll be getting this set as WW2 don’t float my boat.
I agree that it is great that people are producing new figures, but my complaint is on the make up of each set. I understand that the costs of producing figures are increasing all the time, but I feel that we are not getting value for money. £20/$30 is expensive for 9 figures. If you get 9 different figures I would probably be tempted, but having to buy several sets to get all of the poses, the costs become ridiculous. If I feel that someone is using a marketing ploy to get more money out of me (Conte’s Spartans and WW2 Americans are examples), then I will pass.
John
I have been of the opinion too of investing so much money in a series. I feel I could use that money elsewhere. I will get the French at some point. the rest if they show up in a lot or mixed box I will put them aside.
They appear to dwarf the existing common figures. Some of the kneeling EF are as tall as the conte US para standing up or Brassevich (sp) standing up. The legs are twice the girth of the current conte, TSSD, CTS, Austin figures. I believe conte are very close to 54mm to 56mm but are bulkier. TSSD the same. These figures are 60mm for sure from pictures. The weapons are massive. The EF German holding some kind of machine gun would give Jaws (Richard Keil) a run for his money. When the kneeling firing are as tall as the Conte and TSSD standing then in my opinion they won’t work. One EF leg makes two of the current figure’s legs. Plus while it is true there are Audie Murphy and James Arness in our army the weapons and helmets are similar in size. I was so excited about these figures, but am now extremely disappointed. I use accurate, airfix, and marx together, then moved to using Conte, TSSD, AM, and newer CTS together, don’t fancy moving a step larger to EF.
I totally agree with your statement Eddie. I was looking forward to adding some of the more unique sets, heavy weapons, officers, etc…to fill in with my existing hordes of Conte germans and GI’s, TSSD, and CTS new sets (the CTS guys are actually on the large size themselves – germans in particular, but not nearly as much as the EF). The TSSD guys are a bit larger I think because of the large bases the figures are on, but given a flatter base are similar in stature to Conte’s. Many of us have large collections of these ‘older’ figures along with the forces of valor vehicles. EF figures have no place in these collections in my view. And if these figures are geared to 60mm metal collectors, I dont understand why they would want them as they are unpainted. Many of us collect the plastic figures to paint them as well – I may be speaking for myself but I don’t think so. Why would I want to invest in these to paint them myself when they will look huge compared to the rest of my collection?
I agree that EF is reinvigorating the hobby to a large extent, and I appreciate the awe inspiring variety of figures – the knights are on my wishlist – that they are producing. I just wish they were compatible with the lines of figures and vehicles that I already have amassed – if they were wouldn’t EF stand to make an even larger profit??
I totally agree with you Todd. These EF WWII figures were a dream come true as far as support weapons and additional poses for our already collected hoards of Marx, Airfix, CTS, TSSD, AM, and Conte. I have been drooling since I first saw the prototypes. I was looking to reinforce my lot manyfold with these, but recent comparison photos on treefrog so I will save tons of money for other projects. I can’t help but think that the market would have been many times greater had they fit in with our existing armies. Sure the Timmee and Ideal fans get some extras, but I would wager that market is not near as big as the ones I have listed ranging from 51 mm to 57mm. As proof this community buys and talks more about marx, tssd, conte, cts, airfix, and AM, than ideal and timmee in my observation.
In my opinion ,I don’t think 100 commenters or 3 times (wish is not near what I had saw in three main forum site altogether)represent the hobby buyers potential .But the scale represented and used by EXF now is not along in old vintage only.
Most producer follow their pre/item sold out already and profit done to release next. I bet EXF is not an exemption and they will see how goes.
.The Chinese company making painted PLASTIC soldiers/figures in 65mm or more and sold in bags such as roman,NapoleonicRussian,french,British,knights,vikings,Egyptian,Russian knights,crusades and WW2 Russian plus had been selling it very fast in US and world. Steve international Hobby distribute then in US most retailers of this hobby. I heard many buying it and in large quantity because of price/poses and nice design too. At show you see then often ,same on eBay with numbers sold fast. Not complain, so I think they are plenty(large size)=over 60 mm out there buyers if not these sets won’t be on market for so long and sold.
Here is link on many of those sets.
http://stevenshobby.com/productlisti…&categoryid=26
Last is 51 -57 mm go fine(7-8 mm difference) then 58 to 68 won’t be that much I guess!!
TSSD roman are in that range and look giant compare only to most European tall ancient figures still they sold fast and furious.
Once again my opinion base on retailers/wholesales sales and distribution.
I would like to see more competitive pictures. Currently there is only one that I see on the forums. Maybe EF next to K&C and a TSSD G.I.
Meant comparative not competitive.
Go to Treefrogs site there are some good comparative pictures. These figures are HUGE, not just tall but thick. Totally out of proportion with Conte, TSSD, CTS.
I think the unrest so to speak is because most of us, myself included, were really looking forward to these. I had over $300 preorder that I cancelled, plus I had plans on buying more. I’ve just about talked myself silly discussing these. My take Ex-Force is going to have a warehouse full of WW2 figures gathering dust.
Gary
Good so I can now use for my 60 mm collection so need of German in good poses .I collect various scale,I can do many scale,40/45 mm ,50/54 and 60/70mm .Any how all older vintage such as Marx did same ,making in many scale as they like and want.
Not a big issue for me. My ideal and aurburn only have the Elastolin Germans in my collection ,the Marx and tim mme 60 mm will have these now.
Fellow collectors,
a SCALE is a SCALE.
Keeping to SCALE keeps the hobby Strong and Consistent!
I feel as if everyone is making excuses for a major blunder.
3 different scales will only weaken the focus of the market!
DEETAIL / AIRFIX / ITALERI / PEGASUS = 1:32
CONTE / TSSD / ENGENEER BASS / AUSTIN = 1:30
If they want our hobby to prosper, they have to pay close attention to SCALE!
Christian Aldo – The Plastic General
WITH GOOD INTENTION,
I began to think of how EX FORCE could solve this problem to minimize the damage.
(Because the manufacturers in our hobby are like sports stars to me, I want them to succeed)
HERE IS MY SOLUTION
(1) Release the figures “exclusively” in PLAYSETS that include both armies.
(2) Include a few oversized vehicles like the BMC SHERMAN & LTV and
the new JAG PANZER IV.
(3) Target first time buyers and non-collectors of 1:30/32 and price the Playset just a little above cost just to recoup expenses.
Then get on to future WWII releases that are properly scaled to the hobby because there are a lot of us out here who were prepared to drop $300 a year on EX FORCES releases!
Loyal and Passionate Collector – The Plastic General
Aldo in my opinion the idea is very good and could work .With all respect and as fellow collector will like to offer my view in what you said please.
After reading EXF answer letter/email to Garry they did their mind and as you very well mention no only them but others (most new makers are in the same scale already).My over scale ,will call better 1:30 scale as never intended for 54 mm but I understand the point any how and not feel bad for being called that
ST First armor was done following exactly what was coming( I personally change the sizes in the design after carefully observing the future coming that many of your guys were not aware yet). During my process I had observe last release and see what few other start already. Even last Barzso release are larger than original. So as I do collect to 54 mm too I understand your point and others but I need to be realistic and see what is coming and introduce myself to match new coming and not what is done.
Least I call it 1:30 not as BMC call then 1:32.So I was honest to mentioned first before any one think otherwise. I guess.
When BMC Japanese (from former K&C sets/mold were done ,they were over scale with their GI’s counterpart.(As general Japanese people are smaller than western=Americans ) Still we accept them as granted.
I wish I could do those ideas of yours, trust me; but in way of monetary expenses the calculation is more complicated and required more money than just that.
Sample International costume fees for play set are higher than per set/bag or one single armor piece at port declaration.
A box with some art designed and inside accessories will have to be add.
meaning separated mold for accessories and special designer artist for box. That not counting any building/trench or armor.
I had talk to few and realize that most (playset) take way much longer to sale than actually sets to regular buyers. In fact many play set are done in way to liquidate excess of production runs.
one- shipping cost, two-most item inside are no need and could get same or similar in other way with out buying the inside playset
About scale.
For Paragon,Austin ,EX forces ,EB, PLV(OTHER RUSSIAN) and others I don’t think will be plausible got back to 1:32 neither will match and sets done .It will be like asking AIP go to 60 mm after so many done in 54 mm.Others are either vintage,reisuues or very few new doing slow in releasing such as AIP,CTS. So I think it will transition to larger scale in future, it is a general rules being follow by new companies. Even CTS last German are larger than first set done(no match in scale between both sets)
Making playset are way expensive plus include shipping weight that in case of EXF Singapore shipping cost to US and others will mean increasing price a lot to wholesalers and regular buyers making their playset way too expensive .
I think we will have to see but as far EXF his company is that way and not going back.
Last I will like to appreciate your input are a very good idea-thought definitely=good point honestly; just that need way more($) that only unless we can afford to waste in the beginning and not recover will make a new chapter.
None of us is willing to afford that now.
About 1:30 scale not selling I think is selling well, I had got report from Austin,paragon,the two Russian firm and they move fast.
Last TSSD German were only 4 poses and not that good choice so I think it was the hurt there, not size, even though they look a bit shrunk too.
Now out of WW2 era I notice that all new (Chinese painted sets)-I forgot name of company now being sold in bags by hobby/toy soldier stores are hot items and selling super fast.
Sample the Roman and Napoleonic sets all are out stock from main US suppliers(so is the high demand on those sets).They did only one WW2 sets (Russian),but they will go in doing more soon and the 60 mm scale they do will sale as those before.
Last; the (safari-tubes) GI’s copies from airfix/else are 60 mm scale and many had bought it.
So yes it is definitely a big market out there in 1: 30 scale according to sales from those few companies believe or not. I was worry at beginning then realize the true.
60 mm scale is in the first line now and will be for long till other few start making the 54 mm scale production.
Once again it reflect my personal opinion and observation and like always I hope I not tire you guys as t write so much..later
Peter I am glad you were amused by my use of the term “new 54mm” scale – it always makes my day if I can bring joy to someone’s life – no matter how small the way. But I was, like Eddie, making a comment (and not an altogether approving one) on the scale creep the hobby has been experiencing these past years. I – as have others – have already made accommodations for the market, but as I said I will pass on these.
The latest pix of these guys close the deal for me. I wish Ex-Force the best and hope to buy more of their stuff in the future.
One other note on figure creep is the increase in bulk/girth of these figures. EF heads and legs dwarf the current market figures of TSSD, CTS, Conte, and AM. EF legs are almost twice as thick and heads twice the size. Would like to see comparison to Ideal, Auburn, and Timmee too.
1:32 & 1:30 are fine, I collect them both.
But when it comes to 1:28 scale (EX FORCE)
there a compatibility and marketing problem.
That’s all I’m trying to say.
Plastic General
I see your point ,but they drop the ball and unless he start a hold new series in more 60 mm and not 70 mm or close he won’t redo these as he said.
I agree they guys are tall ,only to match with largest, most vintages figures. Those m36 helmets are very large and odd too. That is the risk in designing separated poses and gear or weapons too .As far I can see ,the designers are not using a computer scale match machine that will have avoid this. I would thought they could afford/invest on it. The machine and program are not to expensive neither hard to work with.
Could someone please tell me what captions and subcaptions I have to go to on Treefrog Forum in order to see the comparative size photos for these new XForce WWII figures? I can’t find them. Or feel free to post an actual link. But specific directions would be fine. Thanks.
Don
Go to Treefrog forum, Once there look for General Plastic Discussion and click on that. Look for Email response from Scott. That thread will have the pictures etc.
I can see the blend well for ideal ,aurburn and marx/tim mee US figures.
My opinion after seen these picture is more than 60 mm(65-70)in most poses. They are not 60 mm or 1:30.No way!!
Poses/detail and variation head gear is good and nice,
Helmets and weapons have an issues in both sets. If they do Japanese I hope they go down a bit to match this same scale they did here.
I still like to have giants for my giants other armies. That is the good part of been multy scale collector.
I found this link of an eBay seller selling one of the German set, the picture(7) show a German officer pose figure next to tssd and Marx ,MPC poses.
I see here not much exaggeration as in those posted at treefrog forum picture .May be is just that pose or the pose and figures used in other site are odd to compare with.
May be few are too tall!?.
please see for yourself.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-German-Infantry-Machine-Gun-Section-1-32-54MM-Expeditionary-Force-Toy-/191637091752?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c9e75f5a8
Erwin
Very Interesting, I will be looking into getting a set so I can do a comparison.
Don, You can also find them on Hobby Bunkerm, Jim Clouse posted some pictures.
I will say the Ex Force guys look very husky, however they are very nice figures and if I did WWII, I’d buy them just like I buy everything Alamo or Custer regardless of size. This talk reminds me of the Sons of the South fiasco in the past. Those guys were monsters compared to everyone else Conte made.
I often find that if you are clever enough you can hide the bigger huskier guys in a diorama as long as you don’t place them near someone of obviously inferior size. I think machine gun and mortar crews can be hidden away from the others and further disguised by bunkers, sandbags and foliage so they are not so obviously monsterous in their appearance. Just my opinion of course, but I would think these figures would be a welcome addition to anyone scollection. I know it’s easy for me to say since I don’t do WWII, but I may buy some anyway because I like them.
Ed I too accommodate scale using space and visual effect .as I me room before they should blend well with giant ideal. Auburn, Timmee and Marx tall poses.
Elastolin and Starlux Germans will have their super “kamaraten “reinforcement. (Admin Kamaraten means buddy)
I hear people say these figures will go with Ideal, Auburn, Timmee, Marx 60MM. It’s 2015 who collects those figures any more?
For better or worse the current trend or size if you will are Conte, TSSD, Austin, CTS. EF you need to go with the flow. I think we are all trying to justify the huge blunder this company made. I know I did. I tried thinking of every conceivable way these gigantic figures would work with current WW2 plastic. I’ve come to the conclusion unless you want to start a whole new scale they WILL NOT WORK.
Gary
Gary
There are people who still collect Auburn, Timmee and Marx 60mmm as I sell these figures to people on EBay all the time. For these people who like this size the figures will work from everything I am reading.
For the people who are in either the Marx scale of 54mm or TSSD or Conte scale the Expeditionary Force figures will not. It is a shame as there are some interesting poses. It is a blunder that hopefully EF will correct on their future releases as the collector market is tuned to those two scales.
I do. as well many had them from past or still reissued being sold around on ideal. same on elastolin and others I got plenty. I’m a collector and many as me are and will do same.neither I like to say (we) as every body is not a lamb and i can not speak x others as not the voice of all.every one has his own opinion and I respect others who don’t like.the flow is nor constant neither standard so we can choose what we like.that is why we like diversity .many will and are buying it .those don’t like it will have the opportunity to get others any day in future.if any does the long not produced 54 mm
Sorry x those who
waste money and
disapointed .I bet
they will recover one
day. pease and
freedom.
Just the other day I got a bunch of Ideal GI’s in an e-bay lot. I get Auburn all the time too. Timmee must have made made zillions of their early GI’s, you can still get them in abundance almost anywhere. I’d like to see a comparison of the X Force guys kneeling next to a standing TSSD or Conte, or a kneeling TSSD , Conte that would be the true test in my eyes.
I remember when Conte came out with his Spartans some people criticized the large, bulky scale. They didn’t have any opponents to fight, and didn’t match with anyone else’s Ancients. But they were so great I had to have them, and eventually bought a total of 5 cases, giving me right around the magic number of “300 Spartans”.
Because the Conte Spartans were so well designed, they successfully stood on their own in their own right. I’m hoping the same happens to these ExForce WWII figures. They certainly fit in well with the BMC Sherman and King Tiger tanks, as well as Sell Toy’s Tank-Killer, as well as WWII Timmee, Auburn, and Ideal.
But basically, I don’t feel I have to have every one of my toy soldiers fit in with every single set-up I do. I like my 70mm Timmee knights, pirates, and Robin Hood figures, even though they don’t fit in with anything else in the world.
I agree Don with you in all, Now I remember the issue with Conte too. And if you to show or else collectors are hunting them like nuts.
I think the small toy soldier market is limited and any that come unless horrible done will be a great addition to many and most .
For those with a limit like of specific size or scale will be and is more hard. Like I say before ,even Marx did so many different scale and most of old (Marx golden era) generation kids play with all of them and now still collect or buying same again.
If want very specific perfection, made the scene with those specific to the type. It will be nice but more hard and less diversity any how.
I do buy new products but never go fast on getting them, I prefer to see either pictures and compare first or in hand before buy. Most new will be there for long running around; even long discontinued Conte sets are still around in good number with exception of playset character. Price is high, market is going up, every body is increasing prices and by next year will again,life go up not down,. Shipping is a big problem but out of hand for wholesalers an retail, it is not their fault and unfortunately increase the price per figure/set. So if you can not afford it please don’t buy it.I’m know is hard but chances are you will get it for a better price in a show, auction or else. I have come to that reality often and work for me.
The Russian sets made in Russian two firm are more expensive and shipping high, I will hold in most last till I can, even short run if I can not get them ,too bad too sad. In my case is a matter of price/fix limited more than cost .I set my max price per figure included shipping in new sets. Vintage is another part.
Here’s the link, Ed. Probably the most complete comparison shots I’ve seen.
http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/forum/showthread.php?55046-Email-response-from-Scott-of-Expeditionary-Force&p=698810#post698810
I will still look later as not rush for me to see figures in hand ,in other forum I see then next to obvious smaller scales as 52/54 mm airfix and else, others bad choices of poses with legs open or bend next to standing EXF poses.(Why if not resent figure is 54 mm put next to smaller old vintage production or choose a guy not standing but running or else next to standing pose of other company!? So not too clear pictures and not well choice of compare done. Like I say before first CTS German set done in 90’s was the most odd set in poses, size and scale body mass else with head and helmet looking like child versus other and few poses cloned from Marx(6″) in much tall scale than others; still we accepted and got them as nothing around. And I see that set/poses mix often in playset/scene and shows pictures all around between collectors.
So far I see they(EXF) are high but many poses of even Marx 57/59 mm(as many are not 54 in reality) blend with them ok in some of the poses of EXF.
Any how I got my match already for the so call super (“giant”) so I’m happy for them around in my collection.
Still will see when in hand..
The more scales within 1:32 umbrella, the weaker our hobby will be.
Ideal, Auburn, Timmee, Marx 60MM. scale!??
That scale is a long DEAD END!
Except it. They dropped a bowling ball!
We just have to hope they continue.
Plastic General
Well may be this new scale coming now with EXF will continue ,if they continue doing same size as it I guess no other choice till another decide go otherwise.
But will love to see any body too go off (German-regular/American /Japanese sets.)
Least they(EXF) are doing 1942/45 French. Interesting set/army for Africa, Italy and France campaign
It was a world war!!!Not US/Germany/japan only.
I’m actually not frustrated with ExForce for their scale issues, any more than I was with Marx as a child, when Marx switched from a 60mm line to 54mm , and the old Fort Apache and Robin Hood figures were no longer compatible scalewise with the new versions. Intermittently, Marx would even revert to 45mm figures and sets, sometimes combining different scales in the same playset.
I admit to some frustration when Auburn, Ideal, and Timmee all made nice figures, but in a scale completely incompatible with any of the three scales my beloved Marx was using. And W. Britains Deetail figures, with their unusual bases, were (and still are) incompatible with everybody else’s figures as well. And Atlantic Ancient and Western figures, which I quite liked, were similarly incompatible with everything else on the market.
My real dissatisfaction with ExForce is the increasing level of kit-form they come in, along with about the highest prices around. I really don’t mind gluing in some arms and variable heads, in order to have more 3-dimensional figures. But I find it wearisome to have to glue in weapons, shields, horse reins, and even horses to the bases, as was required when I got all the ExForce mounted knight sets. The fact that the prongs on the horses’ feet didn’t easily fit into the pre-drilled holes in the bases didn’t help either. Despite the use of Superglue, whenever one of these figures is dropped or knocked over, parts tend to come off and have to be reglued. If ExForce is aware of the perfectly reliable glue for it’s products, it should include a tube in each box. Better yet, sell us a finished product, like CTS, TSSD, Blackcat, Paragon, Marx, Timmee, Auburn, Ideal, Lido, Timmie, Airfix, Timpo, CTA, Conte, and every other producer of injection molded plastic toy soldiers figures has always done.
ExForce now charges approx. $30.00 for 9 foot figures. This is substantially higher than Conte, who always managed to provide us with fully assembled figures, and, in the case of his Spartans, fully articulated as well.
Conte had figures with plug arms, lots of them, I would say that almost every set he made had some plug arms or hands in them and they didn’t always fit together too great either. Usually the plus arms required some carving to get them to fit correctly, some were better than others though.
Conte usually had a few figures in his various ranges that required glueing or offered alternating plug-in arms. I can recall this on his Zulus, as well as a few of his French Foreign Legion, 24th Foot, and WWII Germans. But the substantial majority of Conte figures came fully assembled, as did the articulated Spartans — they were 100% fully assembled.
My point is simply that ExForce has carried the assembling and glueing of their figures to an unprecedented level for injection molded plastic figures, especially their mounted knights, mounted Greeks, and mounted Persians, so that when you get a box of ExForce figures, you are essentially buying a model kit. Getting an ExForce set these days is a lot of work.
Other than that, I like ExForce figures, despite (for the reasons I listed above) some scale divergences with figures from other manufacturers. The ExForce Persians were just great, and if it weren’t such a project assembling them, I would have purchased many more —- to go with my 300 Conte Spartans.
Yes .the over plug glue parts in these sets intended to give more variation of poses unfortunately had created the rise in prices big time.
I agree for those not like the work is a pain.but those who want variation is a plus but at a high price.
The OWN sets have this issue or for others good add.but least I offer 14/16 figures for less cost and less shipping ..EXF sets price are really an extreme max in my opinion.
There I do agree with most.
Well, 8 of the 32 Alamo defenders had plug arms or hands, granted his newer sets came fully assembled, mostly those you purchase in blister cards. Even his aborted AWI set had plugs arms. In any case though, I don’t mind the kit type soldiers, easier to convert.
Question, what happen to GUN- HO ?Will they ever do any else or are gone too!!?
I really liked the GUN-HO Australians and was looking forward to their NVA/VC figures which didn’t happen,Their US Cavalry/Apaches weren’t too bad either.I heard he wasn’t making enuff profit on them and closed down but don’t quote me.Any more news on the upcoming NVA/VC figures from US maker “scheduled” for this year?
Than you Brian ;oh wow, another that is gone , it is very sad when you see few spending and no going forward because the hobby is not large or enough profit .And they did very popular figures to start I guess!!So it was not a matter of poor choice. It is a hard market out there, but once again I bring the lack of advertise places to show and promote their line, company name and else, even with today so many free sites and tec ,still you can be years before they know you are there. And the few magazine around, most charge like a NY times small add per small section fee to post it. So much for their support to the hobby.
Erwin
Gung Ho has been out of business for a number of years. Their Apaches were under scale around 45mm. Steve Weston can tell you more about this company as was working with them.
I’m glad that I don’t collect WW 2.
But, I am an avid Western figures collector and the new Conte/TSSD/Austin/Paragon
scale is fine with me. I’ll mix them in with Ideal, Atlantic, Remsea, Timmee, Marx 60 mm and a few others.
I also have my 54 mm guys. They just stay seperate from each other.
From reading this thread, it looks like these people missed the boat here.
If collectors don’t like the new size they will not buy the figures and that will be the end of the company.
I guess we will see who is right.
I think that Ex F figures are too expensive and I won’t pay that much for them. I got some ACW figures in a trade and there’s nothing special about them. The scale is right on, though. Why didn’t they just stick to the ACW scale?
In the UK Cherilea, Johilco, Charbens and Crescent moved to 60mm from 54mm, mainly to stand out on toy shop shelves against smaller figures and ,make them more attractive to the child.
Cherilea became influenced by Elastolin, as seen in their Roman and Viking sets.
Britains, Timpo and Airfix stuck with 54mm, although Timpo were a bit chunkier compared to the other two firms.
Britains Deetail and Airfix worked well together because Ron Cameron designed the majority of the companies ranges
In metal I had seen same, most old metal ,not the antique, I’m talking about from late 40 till late 80’s were 54 mm approx.;then the 1:30 scale and larger start coming out more often .And is selling very well in that market too till now. So it all depend if sale for long meaning , it has a market. I see in plastic the same. Both scale move fine. As I state before the larger newest Chinese plastic painted figures are selling fast and good,TSSD ROMANS had not match in 54 neither most other unless next to 60 mm or taller and they sale well. So it is a big market out there. That it affect the 54/else range market, yes it does .Apparently EXF not worry about it at all.
The TSSD Romans, with their computer-generated design, came out a little taller than Nick intended them, thus making them slightly taller than the Barbarians TSSD produced as their opponents. This, in fact, would have been historically incorrect, since the Romans were slightly shorter and smaller than the Gauls and Germanic tribes they fought.
But I’ve found the reissue Cherilea Saxons, Gauls, and Vikings make perfect opponents for the TSSD Romans, since they (the Gaul, Saxon, and Viking figures) are slightly bigger and huskier, just like they were in real life.
The TSSD Barbarians, on the other hand, make perfect opponents to the HAT Romans, which are just slightly smaller than the TSSD Barbarians.
In any event, like most adult toy soldier collectors, I have way too many figures to ever use all of them in one set-up.
So there’s no problem with me having a set of 60mm armies, and then a set of 54mm armies, either for the Romans or for WWII, or really for any other period. That way, I’m not overly bothered by whichever scale a manufacturer tends to use in releasing a new product. There’s so many scales and variations out there that I feel I will never have problems finding suitable allies or opponents.
But as I get older, I actually find I’m partial to the bigger 60mm+ sizes. And I’m therefore glad most new production from TSSD, CTS, Paragon, ExForce, and Austin Miniatures (and the later issues from Conte) are all trending toward the larger size.
Bill N
I feel the same way and will mix in my 54mm with 60mm figures. My problem is getting time to do anything with them as I have other projects commanding my time.
Yep indeed and well logic solution, easy to move around in so many choices. I did same with the barbarian and others too.
Also in the case of romans made by TSSD ,they too could well be used for the permanent territorial foreign legions fully compose of in most part (Germanic, High land Celts and others of higer stature than standard latin/Etruscan race people);the armor depicted in those figures with helmet is a typical II and early III century when the maximum need of foreign recruiter and trained fill the ranks of empire, even generals and of course lower rank were choose from those land ,later many of these legion form part of era of civil war in late empire history as sided with locals more often. They could be used as roman citizen standard legionaries or legionaries of the Auxilia(of which Roma keep from 20 -30 legions in total during the high and was compose of non roman citizen and barely have not difference what so ever between the two corps in armor/training and organization..
Still is just an option after well choose idea of yours and logic in type of people by size.
When I was a kid I was a fussy little tyke and kept my 54 and 60 separate and played with them at different times. Even then I did not like mixing the scales. My Cherilea Braves never took on Britains cowboys, although I did use the Cherilea spacemen as aliens to fight my Timpo, Lone * Star and Britains infantry.
I’m waiting to see if MARX 6 inch figures are ever reissued as ‘New 60mm’
Well, as a gamer who plays out many an obscure subject on the tabletop, I got the EF Free French from a dealer who offered a bundle price for all 5 sets, and am quite happy with them. They stand only a head taller than others, if that, though a bit chunkier–vbut then, (I’m a bit chunkier myself, although I was not when of military deployment age.
I’ve got more major power WWII figures than I need, so I won’t be getting the others. These FF will also join in as Spanish, Russians, or Chinese as needed from the 20s to the 50s! I mix my scales, so that although I prefer strict 54mm, I collect from Medieval to Korean War, and that requires a lot of different stuff, even though I’m not overly fussy about exact uniform accuracy. My philosophy is that of old pre-computerized films:
“The entire Russian Army was played by the entire Spanish Army.”