Question time Marx 54mm Matt Dillon Chocolate Brown?

Posted on November 8, 2017 by admin

Question time Marx 54mm Matt Dillon Chocolate Brown?  I had a reader ask me the following question have you seen a Marx 54mm Matt Dillon in chocolate brown. Have you ? If not any thoughts?

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44 Responses to Question time Marx 54mm Matt Dillon Chocolate Brown?

  2. ed borris says:
    November 9, 2017 at 8:10 AM

    I have never seen a US made Matt Dillon in any other color, but cream. I asked Rick Eber and he has not either.From what I have read, Marx did send some original molds to Mexico in the late 50’s and early 60’s. Did they send the Gun Smoke molds, I can’t say with any certainty. However, if they did, I think any of these odd colored figures as long as they have the Marx plug stamp on the bottom could have come from these original molds sent to Mexico.If they were made by some industrious fellow using the original figures to copy, I wouldn’t think they would have the Marx plug stamp with the name of the character on the bottom. The ones I bought and sold some time ago, did have the plug stamp on the bottom of the figure and while they weren’t the same quality of soft pliable plastic used by Marx here, they were a soft plastic. The history of molds sent to Mexico I would say is sketchy at best so the provenance is difficult to say the least. This is my opinion for what it’s worth of course we know opinions are like ……., everyone has one.

    Reply
  3. Lester Lessa says:
    November 9, 2017 at 10:27 PM

    A set of chocolate gun smoke figures turns up once in awhile on ebay. I think they are listed as proto types ,or test figures. It seems there is no doc figure.

    Reply
  4. Bill Nevins says:
    November 9, 2017 at 10:28 PM

    Ed, It would not be hard to include the Marx logo on a counterfeit figure. My feeling is that if you were going to bother copying it, you might as well go all the way.

    If you have any of the P&P resin figures, you can see the level of detail that can be obtained. Depending on the mold material used, you could run one of those single injection machines and use a soft plastic. Like T.D. does with his spiked logs.

    Or perhaps it was a test shot from the real molds.

    Reply
    • ERWIN SELL says:
      November 10, 2017 at 12:47 AM

      Bill the Logo could be re stamp(I have a person actually do one figure with it in mistake when copying a marx figures) if done with a base in hand press mold machinery ,now what could be easily spotted is position of halve exit and entrance that only marx long production massive steel mold could do and hand pressed cloned mold can not ,same in plastic texture at close range,no possible way marx plastic could be replicated today .
      my opinion …

      For those asking about what molds were sent to mexico from 1952 -1967 i have answer,working in translating actual receive mexico marx plastimar factory documentation in these weeks .
      So far in none of it by the way indicate this set mold was sent there.
      yet there is another interesting part in marx mold from 1967-1972 in mexico .
      Once done and translate will pass to admin for inspection and post as he has second opinion as been first only over Mexico first in 80s …
      BEST..

      Reply
      • admin says:
        November 10, 2017 at 7:31 AM

        The Marx molds that I saw in the 80’s come from Dinamico’s purchase from the Marx bankruptcy. Dinamico would later purchase Plastimarx assets. One mold that was with Plastimarx was the American beauties mold. these were the figures that Louie would hand out to his friends.

        Reply
        • Erwin says:
          November 10, 2017 at 8:22 AM

          I’m working on .I had found direct family member of plastimarx ownership and he is sctally writing a book on it.
          X now he had pass me much info I’m putting together and translating..the person has acces to msny original access and documents. ..

          Reply
    • TDBarnecut says:
      November 10, 2017 at 11:10 AM

      At one time I made a large number of lead recasts of plastic figures from my own home made silicone rubber molds. The rubber was from silicone caulking tubes and not very expensive. They were not difficult to make, the figures had good detail and painted up well. I tried adapting the molds to a small plastic injector but that didn’t work very well. Because of the flexibility of the rubber, the figures were highly distorted with lots of flash.
      I agree with Bill and think that you would need access to the original steel molds to make decent reproduction figures. You would probably never be able to match the flat colors and original feel of the figures, but you could get pretty close to it.

      Reply
      • ERWIN SELL says:
        November 10, 2017 at 11:15 AM

        yet with today’s 3D technology we should be prepared to see some real well done cloned ,even in logo brand below base .Of course plastic will be different but could be claim as made abroad with other plastics ,a point mentioned very well though by ed.
        So the more advance tec is the more some may try do some scam out there in near future if not done yet.
        my thoughts…

        Reply
  5. Bill Nevins says:
    November 10, 2017 at 1:52 AM

    no possible way marx plastic could be replicated today .

    Erwin, Agreed, but Ed says in his post that it was not the same plastic as Marx.
    Which is why I think that it a counterfeit.

    Reply
  6. ed borris says:
    November 10, 2017 at 8:52 AM

    Well, if it can proved that the Gun Smoke mold was never sent to Mexico that would cinch it, it would be a counterfeit or remake or whatever you want to call it. I don’t think they used the same plastic in Mexico as we used up here at any time. So, even if they had the original mold there would be some difference in the plastic. I suppose it wouldn’t be impossible to duplicate the Marx stamp/plug whatever you want to call it, I think it just makes it more difficult, generally when someone copies an existing figure some detail is lost. I’ve seen lots of P & P remakes and they seem to look a little different than the originals at least to me. I guess we’ll just wait on Erwin’s translation and get the full scoop, that should clear most if not all of this up. That is of course depending how the source kept track of the molds he received, hopefully it’s not based soley on his memory. I would think some documentation existed at one time, no telling how much remains 60 years later. The ones I had were not the same plastic used by Marx I held an original Matt in one hand and mine in the other and there was a difference for sure. It wasn’t the brittle plastic you see coming out of Mexico today, but there was a difference you could feel, while flexible it still had a certain amount of stiffness that was not in the original Marx figure.

    Reply
    • ERWIN SELL says:
      November 10, 2017 at 11:11 AM

      Ed ,yes you are correct .The plastimarx figures from early time were made actually with different plastic versus made in US same era.of course after and by 70s till now same .So that is why the mold entrance -exit need be exact positioned in same spot .Yet if we look at MARX-WOW mold HONG KONG sent produced versus early marx made in US and send to mexico mold they are different as two mold made .So is very hard to determine still.
      only way is to know what mold were sent.
      Now if Mold were sent out after Marx close business in 70s is another history ..
      There some mystery and misinterpretation i hope will be clarify after i do all this with files ,pictures and original factory documentation.
      Less will be base in owers words as that i take with salt as well any talking from all previews owner interview in toy soldiers factory.Often giving personal views or interpretation and not facts.
      Other day i was reading a PW magazine Kleeware history as by account of owner son and 85% was just personal talking and not history data with very poor info of actual making and barely few advertise sheet pictures plus some confused facts by owner son and actual data presented at time. Wherever intentional or by mistake I do not say any …
      Works as these i consider poor and for newspaper sensationalism,not quite historical facts.I can do same;post few brand advertise sheet pictures and toy boxes photos with a personal talking and make same.I had seen it often redacted in many hobby magazine and in my opinion are not company historical data ,just few talk mix and chat spread in few sheets.
      While i had found other brands better explained with date and time frame plus sculptors works and comments.Marx i noticed still lack way a lot in deep detail ,about molds send abroad is all but conjectures and assumption in most ,not all..
      My view …
      my thoughts.

      Reply
      • ed borris says:
        November 10, 2017 at 12:05 PM

        I have heard that the Gun Smoke set was a poor seller for Marx. If that is indeed true and I don’t know that for certain, it would make sense if PlastiMarx was still in operation for Marx to ship those molds to Mexico. I would doubt that many in Mexico would have even heard of Marr Dillon, to them he was probably just another cowboy, so if he was included in bagged sets they produced of cowboys, I would not be surprised. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Miss Kitty and Doc were not produced at all if they indeed had the molds. I have heard rumors to that affect from a few people, but fact and rumors are two different things, maybe your research will clean this all up. That is if they can provide good data to you.

        Reply
  7. Andy says:
    November 10, 2017 at 11:22 AM

    So, is it safe to conclude that the original Marx company did NOT make chocolate brown Gunsmoke character figures using the original Marx molds and that the only “real” Matt Dillon figures made by the original Marx company, etc. are cast in the characteristic cream colored soft plastic? I say cream is the only “real” Marx figure.

    Reply
    • ed borris says:
      November 10, 2017 at 11:59 AM

      Yes, I would agree with that assessment, at least based on the fact that no one I know has seen any Matt Dillons from the original Marx US factories produce any in any other color than cream. I suppose it’s possible that somewhere there are test shots in other colors that have not surfaced, but until they do I would say that cream is the only real color.

      Reply
  8. ERWIN SELL says:
    November 10, 2017 at 12:50 PM

    Does that color ever been used in any charter western by marx of same series,era production!??

    Reply
  9. ed borris says:
    November 10, 2017 at 1:35 PM

    That color was used on some 45mm cowboys, some 60mm cavalry, some Arabs and some pioneers and Indians in the Frontiesmen and Indian sets. The only two I know of that were production were the 45mm cowboys and the Frontiersmen/Indians sets. I believe the Arabs and 60mm cavalry were test shots. I have a pioneer in cholcate browna and two 60mm cavalry. I used to have more pioneers and an Indian in 60mm, that I traded to John Stengel Sr.

    Reply
    • Andy says:
      November 10, 2017 at 4:32 PM

      I think I ran into a brown 60mm Roy Rogers figure at one time. Vaguely remember that. As far as I know, Captain Gallant characters were blue, Custer was a turquoise color, the Ben Hur characters were purple or cream, Wyatt Earp was black, tan, gray or cream, and all the other character figures were cream only with names stamped on the bottom except for 60mm Roy Rogers characters. I’d actually like to have character figure copies in different colors, like the Ranch Kids, if they weren’t too expensive.

      Reply
      • ed borris says:
        November 10, 2017 at 4:56 PM

        Yeah I do remember coming across a brown Roy once. Rip , Rusty and Rin Tin Tin also came in powder blue.

        Reply
        • Andy says:
          November 10, 2017 at 5:41 PM

          Yes. From Canada, right? Did other Canadian figures come in different colors? Also meant to say earlier, P&P copies intentionally left the Marx logo off the bottom to avoid any confusion.

          Reply
          • ed borris says:
            November 10, 2017 at 5:54 PM

            There wouldn’t have been too much confusion for the average collector, P & P figures were a hard plastic resin. I Guess there could have been E-Bay confusion by the unscrupulous E-Bay seller. The Canadian 60mm cavalry were also powder blue. I think the character figures were cream in Canada, the powder blue came in header bags I believe. I have a 54mm Canadian Fort Apache and they have normal colors, other than that I don’t know. I’ve never seen another 54mm Canadian Fort Apache, but supposedly it’s not rare. I have seen two of the 60mm version though.

          • admin says:
            November 10, 2017 at 9:26 PM

            The 54mm colonial figures I believe were done in a steel blue.

        • admin says:
          November 10, 2017 at 9:25 PM

          I have had a brown Roy Rogers which I sold on Ebay.

          Reply
  10. ed borris says:
    November 10, 2017 at 6:02 PM

    I addition to the header bags, the powder blue character figures came in the Famous Americans Fort Apache.

    Reply
  11. Bill Nevins says:
    November 10, 2017 at 9:34 PM

    My Canadian Fort Apache sets have the pioneers in steel/metallic blue. They also came in an early FA American set. I have that set also.

    Reply
  12. ed borris says:
    November 10, 2017 at 9:51 PM

    I had the steel blue pioneers in my Happy Time Fort Apache Famous Americans set, but I sold that one to Eber. Admittedly, I don’t know too much about the Canadian sets and it’s been a while since I looked in our Candain Fort Apache. The only thing I know for sure is it had flat yellow Indians and the Canadian flag. I think it has tan and silver pioneers, but I could be wrong.

    Reply
  13. Erwin Sell says:
    November 11, 2017 at 12:39 AM

    Question.
    What Marx mold were used x Canada?
    How Marx produce or distribute there?
    Never heard history about production of Canadian sets.
    Thanks

    Reply
    • Kent Sprecher says:
      November 11, 2017 at 10:35 PM

      The Canada factory made 54mm Robin Hood sets with the characters in green and I believe some sets had yellow and perhaps white merrymen. The early first series 54mm knights, NO BASES, were made in metallic blue and metallic green. Alamo Mexicans were made in metallic red and I think the Texicans in metallic green. The 6omm Cavalry in light blue. Plus there were some Canada then sets with Eskimos and miners, trappers & cowboys. The 60mm Camp Indians were made in a waxy cream. etc… lots of sets were made in Canada.

      Reply
      • ERWIN SELL says:
        November 12, 2017 at 1:26 AM

        Thanks Kent for responses and great data!!!
        .Did they use same Marx sets molds from US or had double molds just for Canadian factory exclusively made/used .?
        best

        Reply
      • ed borris says:
        November 12, 2017 at 7:48 AM

        Interesting I have never seen a metallic red Mexican nor Texians in metallic green. They must be rare indeed. I have seen most of the rest you have described at one time or another.

        Reply
        • admin says:
          November 12, 2017 at 11:04 AM

          It is interesting that very little of Marx Canadian production has show up here in the states.

          Reply
        • Erwin Sell says:
          November 12, 2017 at 1:09 PM

          Here Mark from Canada and Brian post.
          I belive they mentiin not shows are done there so it msy be acreason why so few.
          Yet at facebook I had met two that show Marx playset.
          So they are but much less than here.
          Canada receiced much more toys from UK .So that influence in then collecting painted figures versus not painted.
          Just a though and opinion.
          They may say more …
          Best

          Reply
        • Kent Sprecher says:
          November 12, 2017 at 3:40 PM

          check your early PFPCs someone had a Canadian Alamo set with a few figures in the metallic colors.

          Reply
  14. Kent Sprecher says:
    November 11, 2017 at 10:39 PM

    It would make sense that the Gunsmoke character mold was sent to Mexico as so many other molds were sent there. There have been several instances of brown and maybe silver or gray character figures coming out of Mexico over the year.

    Reply
    • ERWIN SELL says:
      November 12, 2017 at 1:51 AM

      Note about Gunsmoke in Mexico popularity and other data.
      The series was only release for few years and not popular in Mexico while it was popular in Spain where Spaniards toy soldiers factories disd produce so many western sets.
      In fact the more larger poses sets of main spanish firms such Comansi,Reamsa PH and Jecsan were the western sets with Comansi and Jecsan almost covering half of their entire production in years of different series .
      While Mexican toys factories did poorly in general own designed plastic production.Only strong South american producers of plastic figures were Brazil and Argentina that copied cloned Atlantic,PH,jecsan and british firms in western range .While making some original non western sets most about America revolutions 1789-1823 period.
      One rare particular Argentina(Plombel) company did cloned many marx in very good quality,bases are different and not always stamp with brand suggesting a second copier or some one use same molds after.They did copied the 54mm knights and sold as crusades with minor armor differences and in 60 mm scale with cloned Two Lido horses that did perfect scale match in riders poses.
      About series Gunsmoke …
      The TV series was translated and dubbed in Spain and Mexico .the name used was -La ley del revólver-Literally-(The law of the revolver )in english .
      Other Western TV series were more popular

      Reply
  15. Kent Sprecher says:
    November 12, 2017 at 3:43 PM

    To the Mexican factory it was probably treated as just another cowboy mold. I know I saw a lot on ebay years ago from a Mexican seller that had both characters and regular cowboys. It was sold simply as cowboys.

    Reply
  16. Andy says:
    November 12, 2017 at 5:11 PM

    This Joe Baker page shows a Canadian Alaska set with tan colored Miners and Trappers that must cost a small fortune, considering how expensive they are in gray. The tan colored separate small pack for the guy with lantern’s shoulder persuades me that they are old and not new recasts. Eber lives up near Canada in Syracuse; I wonder what he knows about old Canadian sets??
    http://playsetaddict.com/ZZZ16Dreamwish.html

    Reply
    • ed borris says:
      November 12, 2017 at 6:13 PM

      I would guess a lot, he’s probably had plenty of them. I know when those previously unopened sets are opened every year at OTSN, he pretty much knows everything that will be in the box and the variations in colors.

      Reply

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